Roofing Accident / Property Damage Q?

[dad911]

SS - I would document everything asap. Take plenty of pics, I would probably have an engineer/architect inspect.

Agree, from age likely balloon framed. Which means the walls are stressed and damaged, even below the 2nd floor level. Buckled flooring could indicate the floor joists have shifted/moved, whole structure could now be racked. (just like the roof/floor buckling in a car wreck) Fasteners have loosened, nails pulled/wood split.

Wood that was stressed needs to be replaced, and enough siding/sheathing/plaster removed to inspect for hidden damage.

From the scenario you described, operator put the whole pallet down on the roof. I'm not surprised roof structure failed, they basically put 4000# on 2 rafters.

Stressful, but fortunately no one was in the house, you are between tenants, and nobody got hurt.

[recycled sixtie]

I am sorry for your loss. Lots of good info here - legal and otherwise. Take lots of pics for evidence. I cannot believe the deliverer would do that!
G.

[bell]

This sucks, lawyer up as was said. ...
Also take into consideration the amount of money you won't be bringing in since it is in fact a rental. ..... You need to cover every single angle on your end. ......

[dyount]

Please get the neighbor to make a written statement that they'll possibly back up in court.

Fault would be equal between the shingle delivery co and the contractor. NO WAY a responsible contractor or delivery person would drop a pallet of shingles in one place.

[Scuba Steve]

It should be easy to get back with the neighbor - we are on very good terms. I am meeting with both a licensed civil engineer and builder at 2 to go over stabilizing the place and satisfying the city, and am waiting to hear back with the attorney.

I know someone has an obligation to fix the place, and am a little concerned I'll end up spending whatever their insurance would would pay on an attorney. I'm looking forward to finding out what they bring to the table besides basically, defense against the other parties insurance who would like to pass the blame.

Today will be "fun."

[Brando]

Good luck Steve - sounds like quite an adventure, and not the fun kind. I hope you are made whole (a d some).

[Scuba Steve]

Today was pretty productive. I spoke with a couple of attorneys and the consensus is that they may be needed but moreso if the liability part ends up going south or insurance tries to stall or deflect and at this point it's too early to tell.

The engineer and builder concluded that the roof was overloaded but not defective at the time of collapse, and that the wrong method of loading and staging materials was used. Collapse was total; the attic space exists only because the HVAC system will only crush so much. If needed for failure analysis I can work with the engineer in a more official capacity but until then the best thing to do is wait because according to them it's completely obvious what happened.

The first floor wall is also bowed out on the street facing side and the flooring most likely buckled because one or more joists may no longer be attached at both ends. It's hard to tell much more without opening things up. They're getting with the city to provide what they want but said it could be a while, but not to worry because lost rent should be covered. The builder said they really can't do much beyond stabilizing things since if they start rebuilding before liability is determined it can really make a mess of things on their end. Maybe mid-5 figures but cost is a big question mark.

At this point all damages and costs are minimized and now I wait.

[MBAtarga]

That sounds promising. Hope it all works out!

[john70t]

It might be worth getting rebuild quotes from other builders: demonstrating that the costs are valid industry-standard repairs, necessary, and reasonable.

It could turn into a huge 'can o worms' when everything is opened up, and require extensive additional costs.
That shouldn't be on your dime.
Before signing for a fixed agreement, make sure the insurance co. agrees in advance to cover that prospect.

[rusnak]

I would push for answers from the city asap regarding restrictions on rebuilding. I would also press harder with the attorney to get answers from the insurance company. What you want to avoid is anything falling down, and your recovery limited by an offsetting obligation on your part to mitigate the damage that may occur as a result of the initial damage.

[dad911]

How's it going? Repairs started?

[G60SuperCharger]

Man what a nightmare! Hope things are looking up!

[Scuba Steve]

I've meant to come back and post something now that there is actually something worth writing about. Basically...

Spoke with the supplier's insurance a couple of times in late August. They blame the roofing company on delays and claim they aren't talking to them. Some local adjuster comes around and asks questions about how old the paint is for some kind of appraisal. He says they will be done in a couple of days, no need to move forward with the stabilization plan. I tell him I plan to anyway in order to keep the city happy and because the place needs to be structurally sound. In the meantime I check up on the place every few days and nothing interesting is happening.

I move forward with the construction company, they pull permits and get ready to start. Two weekends ago it rained a lot.

The blue tarps apparently wore out and there was water intrusion, basically everywhere. The plaster and drywall on the ceilings came down in large pieces, the bathroom vanity, original hardwood flooring and basically everything inside the place except for doors and trim are done. I've never seen a place so thoroughly soaked. I call their insurance again to let them know they need to send their guy out there NOW first, then the roofing company to talk about tarps, and third an attorney.

In the week since then the roofing company has been incredibly helpful. In all of their correspondence with the supplier they specified leaving materials on the ground due to power lines running along both streets (house is on the corner). There is no way to use a lift to place the materials without violating OSHA guidelines because of this, and they're lucky there wasn't a second accident. The builder put the stabilization place into effect

The supplier's insurance has done nothing. No replies to me or communication of any sort from their side. I sent the last of the pictures and files to the attorney this morning; it's in their hands now. I'm hoping that whatever comes from this also includes paying their cost because of the complete stupidity on behalf of the material supplier and their insurance provider.

[Scuba Steve]

Aaand of course it takes a bit longer for the paralegal to get back with someone when their email accidentally goes to their spam folder. We're meeting up this week.

[Scuba Steve]

Just in case it matters... I contacted the insurance company another time or two just for fun but it goes unanswered. It makes me wonder what they're up to all day long.

The legal types did some research I don't understand and the demand package is going out today/tomorrow from the sound of things. I have no clue whether this will just be something else that goes ignored.

I got a call today - someone with the city just now noticed that there are sawhorses blocking the sidewalk and was curious what was going on so I filled them in. Everything on our end is permitted and documented so they're satisfied and wished the best of luck getting insurance to put the place back together. I need to borrow a gas powered string trimmer and get out there sometime. My electric is no good since there's no power. Trips over there are depressing so I go only when necessary.

[dad911]

If it got wet, send them notice that they are now responsible for mold remediation, due to the delays. That may get them to move faster.

[Scuba Steve]

My thoughts exactly, and that's why It's been so surprising that they disappeared completely at that point. I notified them the day that it was discovered and on the two or three voice mails since then. It's counterintuitive to me that they don't seem to care about limiting their damages, and that it seems they're doing what they can to make it much worse.

Wish I had some idea how this was all going to turn out; I'd probably sleep a lot better at night.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

We load shingles on every house spread out on the ridge. Maybe 3-4 bundles in a stack.

Of course, this is new construction.

Should be done regardless of an old or new home.

I've seen some unbelievable idiots doing roof jobs. They run the show and when a supplier shows up, the lazy slack workers will tell them to pile it up just as the OP experienced. Also, even with engineered truss with wider spacing- they're a recipe for disaster. Majority of re-roofers don't even know what the space is or what's under them. A ridge beam with rafter say 16" spacing is a safer bet.

[Scuba Steve]

It's been a while so there is a little to update.

The lawyer on my end is doing whatever it is that they do. It seems to be mostly demand letters and whatnot. I do know that the roofer's insurance finally got involved once the attorney sent their first round of letters.

The city will not allow the place to be demolished, which I actually appreciate. It's considered historic since it is officially a contributing property in a nationally-designated historic neighborhood.

I met with the attorney and another engineer and builder on site to figure out what it would take to further stabilize the place and make it so it could be completely dried in and this is where it gets a bit complicated. The house was built by balloon framing and the joists for both floors are hung on a ledger board and side nailed to the studs. The ledger board is a 1x4 notched into the stud. Each stud is broken where the ledger board is. This must be addressed before new ceiling joists and rafters may be put in.

I have two quotes now, both excluding dealing with additional unknown issues, the Board of Architecture and FEMA (something else that must be addressed due to % damage). Repair of structural damage (crushed walls and ceiling/roof) is over $60K, and fixing all known damage they caused is just under $250K. I am very glad that I have an attorney on my side even though this is taking longer than I ever could have imagined.

[porsche930dude]

The problem with those old houses is there usually isnt much ridge beam to speak of. Its usually just a little 1x6. and i bet there wasnt much of anything holding it up around the chimney. If he set the pallot right on the roof which is totally crazy it would have went right down.