Well I would hope so, they don't know how horrible it is to get on a plane nowadays, and half the time, the inflight WiFi is slow!!!

good observation. It's also hazardous to the user.

Besides, it is behind me, what do I care that goes on back there?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1409161601.jpg

Most likely written by a homer-sapien.

I have NEVER been bothered by anyone in front of me reclining their seat, and I'm 6'2". Granted, I stow my personal pack/jacket behind my feet once airborne, and this lets me put my legs in the intended area for my legs.

Economy class is just that, dirt cheap A-B, and you get what you pay for - its like steerage of the old days of the airliners. Cheaper than grayhound buss fare, or taking a train.

There is such a mess of people flying these days, I've taken to driving instead. Between constant threat of harassment by "security" or random self centered people, I'll take 35 hours to drive from Charlotte to LA rather then put up with the "conditioning".

I noted over a few years that airports started making people act like animals rather than humans, and have decided to cut as much of that as possible from my life.

If I went to recline my seat and it didn't, I would assume the seat was broken or jammed or something. If I then found out that the dude behind me had knee defenders, I would sit in my seat backwards on my knees and just stare at him, chin on my headrest. Maybe make a low droning noise, mouth slightly open. That would be fun and I'd bet he'd remove them. :D

+1, I've just assumed broken.

I have had someone with a broken seat in front of me keep trying to slam it back over and over, and blame me for blocking it to their spouse, then continue the seat slams for some time. I should of said something, but kept me mouth shut.

Just took an international flight for vacation. My gripes are as follows:
One do not use my seat to climb in and out of your seat in the middle of the night as the two ladies behind me did all the way to London. Two it is a long flight to and from Europe take a $$@$ing shower before going to the airport.

I fly a lot. Air Canada typically blocks the first 4-5 rows for frequent flyers. And guess what? No one reclines. That is for you amateurs who feel entitled. I exclude all international flights - that is different.

And about the TOUCH screen video. It is A TOUCH screen. When my seat in front bounces because you can't handle a TOUCH screen, you have just identified yourself as a simpleton. Ditto for pounding on your keyboard on the tray table. Hey jerk, it is attached to my seat . . .

Ian

That was too funny.

I had a pilot tell me, as we were boarding, that the airlines are discriminating against tall passengers. I concur. I'm 6'8" and plan my route / time based on seat availability. There are some seats that I just don't fit in, my knees hit the seatback in front of me, my back against my seatback. I could fly the route without my butt touching the cushion.
Regarding the device, I personally wouldn't use it. I do wish the airlines acknowledged height as a factor in seat assignment. I usually have to pay more even tho I'm lifetime Gold with close to 2M miles.

I don't recline. It is inconsiderate.

Shouldn't have to think about that but such is deregulated air travel.

Frequent flyers don't recline (as a rule of thumb).

The amount of comfort gained by reclining your seat is so minuscule compared to the amount of leg and general real estate that you eat up for the person behind you. I fly a lot and am not always able upgrade to the additional legroom seat. I don't recline (other than international or redeye flights when everyone is sleeping).

If it's a short flight (less than 3 hours) and you must recline your seat, please do so gently, or perhaps by giving the person behind you a heads up. Rather than jamming your entire body weight backward directly into my knees. Or right into my iPad and drink that are on the tray table right after the flight attendant did drink service.

And please don't ask to climb over me on a short flight to use the bathroom. Go before you board and once you deplane. It's not that hard.

stop sharing my secrets damn your eyes!!!!!!

As you recline the seat, it changes the curvature of the seat relative to your spine. I have this same issue with the 944, I'd like an upright seating position, but the curvature of the seat puts the seat sticking out at all the points my back sticks out, and sticking in at all the points my back sticks in. Mega uncomfortable for more than thirty minutes. Reclining, shifts the points of contact of the seat, bring things somewhat into alignment, but not quite.

Its just a small amount of recline, I have never had issue with the people in front reclining the seat, in fact, I'm almost always behind someone who does.

Amazing that I flew for years without knowing how I needed to correct everyone around me, and myself on how they shouldn't recline their seats. Guess its a recent rule? Reguardless, I try not to fly anymore.

Also, pretty much every flight I did was cross country, either for west coast work related conventions, west coast kart racing, or cross ocean flying, so maybe that is the difference.

This is why I only travel by private railcar.

This! Just a little common courtesy and you can use whatever you want. But where air travel is concerned....common courtesy...isn't so common.:rolleyes:

How in the world do you fit in a 911 without your head hitting the ceiling???


I've traveled to Europe a lot over my life and have experienced everything that has been posted. I try to only recline my seat halfway on longer flights. On short hops around the country, I don't bother reclining the seat, so as to give the person behind me as much room as possible.

In my mind the root problem is airplane seat pitch.....they are cramming more and more people into the aircraft and there appears to be no sort of regulation or limit to how close they can sardine us in there.

I am not a fan of government over-regulation, but generally, I think it is high time that there be a few rules/agreements/regulations that set a minimum seat pitch.

I fly KLM a lot, my butt to kneecap measurement is 28.5 inches and KLM's economy seat pitch is 31, which means if I sit straight, allowing perhaps 3 inches for the padding of the seat in front of me....I do not physically fit into their economy seat.....so when I can, I upgrade.

If I get stuck in economy, even sitting still, the person in front of me invariably complains about my knees in their backside....I can't do anything about it. If they recline, well, lets just say I have had a couple of cases where the irate person in front of me trying to recline their seat accused me of deliberately kneeing them in the back, when in reality, all I was doing was sitting as neatly as possible. Can't swing to the side as I encroach on to my neighbours seat and there is very little extra width available to me, and I am not fat at all, just wide at the hips.

So personally, I think we need some regulations governing seat pitch and width. My vote would be 33 inch pitch and probably around 19 inch width, or perhaps some sort of sensible regulation setting pitch/width to cover the 95th percentile or similar.

This is getting ridiculous.....couple that with air line check in issues, well, air travel is a misery

Dennis

Absolute BS.

Agree 100%.

I'm a very frequent flyer and I will recline when I want to. You paid for the full motion of the seat and you shouldn't feel bad about using it. But you can be courteous about it.

Flying coach is usually dirt cheap and you get what you pay for. You paid $600 for a ticket to London or $200 to get to Orlando and you're going to b*tch about someone reclining their seat? Or someone using the back of your seat to move around?

You want more room and comfort pay for it and quit whining. And if you're that frequent a flyer you're rarely, if ever, sitting in coach.

The discussion in this thread doesn't apply to business/first class, where you almost always fly.

This!^^^ I generally try to sleep when I fly and always recline... and usually so does the person in front of me.

If you don't want the person if front of you getting "in your space" fly first class, or a better grade airline that has larger seats... or Aligiant that doesn't have reclining seats. ;)

Let me add I flew a couple time a month for several years so I guess I would consider myself a frequent flyer for those years... I also discovered JetBlue has the most legroom of the el cheapo airlines (Aligiant the least).

And yes I am guilty of dragging on a (small) carry on... if I am just traveling for the weekend I see no need to hassle baggage claim (or the chance of the airline losing my bag)... what I don't understand is how some people get onto the plane with those huge duffle bags.

Haha that's me dude! I have not checked a bag since the 80's. I have done 3 week business trips out of a single roller bag. Hint - most countries have laundry available :) My latest roller is the 4 wheel job that can roll upright and swivel. Fits calmly into all overhead compartments. Genius!

After a long week of business trips the last place I want to be is baggage claim.

Oh, and if I am in coach I never recline my seat unless the seat behind is vacant.

But locking the recline function IS considerate?

And what does the recline function have to do with deregulated air travel? I don't remember seats being regulated into their upright and locked position before deregulation. But then again, I was really young back then. Remember smoking sections? --now THAT was inconsiderate.

Who said locking the recline function was considerate? I didn't.

Deregulation of domestic air travel created a race to the bottom in fares, more competition, less profit. The "good" is that domestic air travel has become very cheap and accessible to almost everyone. The "bad" is that domestic air travel has become inconvenient and uncomfortable, and the US airline industry has become overall unprofitable. Decreasing seat pitch is part of the increasing discomfort, and recline is an issue at small seat pitch.

Domestic air travel became cheap for a while but fares have increased dramatically along with fewer amenities and lots of extra fees for checked bags, etc. I used to be the king of the last minute, one-way flight to buy a car or take an unplanned trip, not anymore. Those fares have doubled and tripled in the last couple years as airlines are becoming profitable again.

The guy behind me can kiss my azz. I could give a crap about how uncomfortable it is for him to use his laptop. Guess what... Its a plane not a work station. What if some really small person locked your seat in the "recline" position in order to bring the tray closer to him intentionally. You have no right to touch the seat that I paid for and if someone has the balls to do that to me they better be ready to have a really ugly situation on their hands.

Discriminating against tall people, because the airlines should suck it up and accommodate that tiny portion of the population at their own expense be removing rows...oh yes for sure that makes sense. people are fat too, maybe we should make all the seats double wide, so that is a 100 percent increase in fairs for all to accommodate the fat guys, say 10 percent to accommodate the tall folks...but wait, there may be short people out there who feel discriminated against because these big seats make them feel belittled and diminutive....
All a lot of entitlement. If you don't fit the average mold, then you won't fit the average seating arrangement as well as someone who does. Not so hard to figure out, and the world does not owe you anything.
A reclining seat has little to know impact to leg room, it moves like an eighth of an inch back at knee height at most...sure it crowds the person behind you, to some degree, but it is a bonus when your seat is forward, it is ridiculous to think you can be entitled to that space, the guy in front has a right to recline he paid for it! Upgrade or travel some other way, it is stunning the things people find time to whine about...

Many years ago, pre 9-11, the RT ticket from SAN to IAD was ~ $2K on AA or United. Since then I have paid as little as $395 and as much as $850 for the same journey. I'm sure the variables are all over the place but I wonder what the Airline needs to make per seat be profitable?
Rodsrsr - I know you're just being hypothetical but anyone creating/participating in an on board "ugly" situation will likely be arrested and if possible bum rushed off the plane by unfriendly folks in uniform. There are lots of road warriors out there who indeed need to work while in transit. ;)

Actually I've been on Southwest a lot lately. Most excellent airline. I think people who get on Southwest know what to expect and I've never seen any battles over reclining seats.

There's certainly a lot of me, me, me, me here....

This! First world problem. The person in front of me on the airline reclined a fraction of am inch into my space! Wah!

Like I said, I could give a sheet about the persons comfort level behind me. (within reason) not for some douche who wants to use his laptop. The video ad even portrayed the person installing the device as being able to use the extra space and even recline their seat on top of it. So they get to recline their seat while blocking yours? :rolleyes: Solution. Upgrade to first class or change airlines. Cairns is correct because the cost of ones ticket will be in direct correlation to ones level of comfort and or amenities.

This thing has been around for quite a few years not sure what the big deal is.

If you are directing this at me, re-read what I said. The pilot behind me made the comment about discrimination. I said that I choose flights based on seat availability.

Of course you didn't explicitly say locking the recline function is considerate but on this polar issue, choosing to label the act of reclining ones seatback as inconsiderate, has the subtext of saying that locking another's seatback is quite justified - force consideration on others.

Deregulation and leg room. Sorry, but deregulation did not take away legroom. Legroom, in airplanes, has always been a premium concern/balance. AS it is now you can buy extra legroom. I think I paid $20 for an extra few inches on Jet Blue a while back. Funny thing on those flights, the cheap seats were packed. I got the extra leg room AND the whole row to myself. ...as did the few others who paid the extra $20. The cabin contrast was striking. The consumers DO tell the airlines what balance they want. And, considering the minuscule profitability of airlines (as an industry) ... well, during the regulated (fairs) days, airlines were still packing them in.

Correct - you are paying for space. Wanting more space = pay more. There is a limit on weight/space for the aircraft.

Seat pitch was typically 40 inches in the 1940s-1950s. In the mid 1970s, typical was 34-36 inches. In the late 1980s, typically 32-33 inches. Currently typical is 30-32 inches, this is in standard coach.

Flying Across America - Daniel L. Rust - Google Books

That covers seats. What is the consensus on windows then ? I've spent many X-country day flights in the dark lately, as most window seat passengers would close it permanently and we'd be in the dark for the whole trip. Is that a new trend? My kid was a bit disappointed not to see outside on occasion, but I could have booked him the window seat so no complaints, I know how to fix it... I'm just curious... Who owns the window per the above etiquette ? (If it's the window seat only, can I refuse them access to the aisle then? ;-) kidding...

All in all, I think it's cultural, people are simply more rude nowadays (often without realizing it) than in the past, cheap flights also inevitably increase no-class behaviors. Recently I has a guy deploy a laptop the size of 2 tray tables, 30% over my area, and then later disgruntedly slap a privacy filter because he was afraid I'd be spying on the screen he laid right in front of my face...amusing... I hate flying now.

Again, this has nothing to do with deregulation. Seat design has moved away from the over-stuffed look of the 80's to that of Reccaro's with USB tech.

As such, Seat pitch =/= legroom. If all seats were the same construction, then pitch would = legroom. (seats used to use much of that pitch.)