I hope you're not trying to persuade us that legroom hasn't shrunk dramatically in the past decades.

Oye. I'm saying that legroom is not seat pitch. And, contrary to your assertion, I'm saying that deregulation did not drive less legroom.

John, legroom - or lack there of, has been all over the map. There is no one standard. Have you seen the seats in the Ford Trimotor interior? Fairly generous seat pitch, thin steel seat-backs . . .and leg-room sucked.

There is a lot more to legroom and comfort than just seat pitch.

There is no rule that says airlines have to provide reclining seats.

What happens then? The seat pitch pulls tighter, 30" or so.

IOW, each seat-back is then in the passenger's face as would be a reclined seat in front of an upright seat ... and there will be no reclining away from that close seat back. But at least everyones knees are more cramped. :-/

Oh, and more competition for the overhead bins! yay!

Well, I've spent 15 hours this week in a 32.0" pitch going to/from Paris compliments of Air Canada (my 3rd cross-Atlantic economy jaunt this summer with them). My rating: Just bearable. Drink wine & take your favorite form of knockout drug. The wings on the seat-backs + window seat were a godsend for sleeping. And I had an empty seat beside me for my 8 hours today!

And On-Topic we didn't have any fights on-board today. Of course, a planeload of Canadians is never in too much danger of any trouble although I DO have stories . . .

Ian

Some of us need to lighten up.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xJSey8HRUhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Flying with a Hockey team, eh?

Too bad I wasn't there with my Bruins jersey!
Doh! Island beat me to it.

These things have been around for a few years now. As a pilot, I have had several complaints from the Lead F/A about people complaining over these devices being used. I always allow it. There is no policy against it, so I'm not going to tell them they can't use it. Simple solution is I usually suggest they swap seats. 99% of the time that works and of course the person in front now promptly reclines.

Bottom line: You're an a$$hat if you recline. You know it, and everybody else knows it.

Gonna disagree with this. I paid for the seat and the feature. I specifically avoid non reclining seats. You are ann a$$hat for allowing someone's prissy sensitivity to outweigh what I paid for.

Number one the pivot point on the seat is even with the knees, so where the knees are, the seat moves maybe an inch. If you are so freakishly tall that your knees hit the seat, then buy a better seat.

Number two the headrests on the seat actually push your head over vertical in many cases. So you are actually looking down unless you recline a little bit... Unless of course you are freakishly tall and your head is above them. Mine isn't and all the headrests are very uncomfortable.

Three, i recline every time. Not all the way and only when resting but tough *****. If you don't like the feature or are too tall, the. Address it with the airline who makes the seats so damn small, don't ruin my flight.

if you weigh 400 LBS, are 7 feet tall, insist on having a full-on mini CES display complete with 40" laptop in your area as you travel-

upgrade to 1st class. You shouldn't be flying coach since you don't fit.

I agree- the faux outrage over people who recline the seat is just an excuse. What's next? Get pissed because the guy in front of you sits in the seat?

The anger is mis-directed. The airlines have shrunk the room down to a barely human amount of size. Again, the headrests in the seat are right at the point where they push my whole head forward and angled down so I do lean back a bit so I can actually look forward.

You guys want to make it out that somehow the seat angle makes a difference. It doesn't. It decreases your air space sure, but the pivot point is even with you knees meaning the distance from the seat to your knees doesn't change appreciably.

A 6'1" person has an average back to knee length of about 25" and the average distance on the seat is 31". If you sit straight up and move your feet forward slightly there is no problem.

My real beef is that once the seat is reclined I can't even lean forward to reach my bag on the floor. That does suck. The airlines suck for reducing legroom... ...but don't make this the passengers problem, take it to the airline.

...my credentials? 500k airline miles in my FF account.

I agree Chris. I'm flying tomorrow, Tired, working late tonight, I plan to recline and relax.

If the guy behind me has one of those (d-bag, I'm better than you so I deserve more space) devices, I will do the same as the original article. I will ask for it to be removed, and if they refuse, well, I'll make the spilled water look like an accident......

And if the person in front of me reclines, no problem. Their seat is made to recline. I'm 6-1, and can deal with it for a few hours. As others have said, if I move my stuff under the seat in front of me, I have enough legroom. And I realize I could spend more and upgrade, but it's my choice not to.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1409523610.jpg

So my flight tomorrow would have cost about twice as much in 1980. For the savings, I'll deal with the legroom.

just make sure you say "Oops" after you let the drink go- not before, and hit the keyboard.

rjp

Flying Frontier tomorrow, just checked their website: Knee Defenders inhibit seats from reclining and are prohibited for use onboard

Airlines that ban the Knee Defender: air travel - Which airlines ban the use of Knee Defenders during flight? - Travel Stack Exchange

Air Canada
American Airlines
Continental Airlines
Delta Airlines
Frontier
Jetstar
Qantas
Southwest Airlines
United Airlines
Jetstar
Virgin Australia
WestJet

I would also think the default condition would be to not allow any device that alters the operation of a mechanism on an airplane.

So on your plane, if I set up a device that is not specifically banned, to increase my comfort at the expense of others, you would have no problem with it?

And really, an a$$hat for using a airline supplied feature?

Tomorrow, I be an a$$hat.

Peanuts? You still get peanuts? Air Canada only gives out lousy pretzels now. Now I AM pissed.

Ian

I'm at over 160K miles already this year and have never had anyone recline into me... oh snap. :D

^^News to me and the airline I speak of is one of those listed. I'm sure many are diffused at the FA level, but as I mentioned, if it becomes an issue, simply swap seats with each other. I don't ride in the back often enough to care what the cattle is doing back there.

That's some attitude you have about your pax. Which airline do you fly for?

Don't worry, just an inside joke. It's a common saying up front. Of course we care about our pax, but you would not believe the things I saw on a daily basis between pax. People getting in arguments about other people taking their shoes off, or lifting armrests or sunshades, etc.. it is never ending. As I mentioned earlier, if it gets to us up front, I always try to help the situation by having them swap seats, moving around etc. Basically trying to make everybody happy.

I follow more of the 'why can't we all get along' rule..! :cool:

Man we have had reclining seats forever
Is this what us humans people are coming to these days we can't seem to get along with anyone were to quick to find fault
Were looking for excuses to complaint about every damn thing
What happen to good old comon sense and human friendly
I certainly don't look forward to the future of how things are going the saying my friend says look after number one (me) **** the rest cause it's getting shorty in this world
I read about this on cnn this morning along with isis and Russia violence all negative
Makes me sad
Makes me just drive my. 911 and forget about what's happening cause it's all caused by greed and religion greed

If my FIL took his shoes off in the plane you know it before you heard the first complaint.

Agree on the not reclining. I always ask if it's going to be an inconvenience to the person behind me.

If I do have to drain the lizard, I apologize profusely.

As to those making fat-ass comments, stuff it. I have had way less space invaded by tubbies than big people. Not fat, big.

this is a nice response...I bet many really appreciate your courtesy.

I am gold with us air and united. most of my flights are made the day before I travel. this year has been terrible for me getting my usual first class upgrades. I have flown coach far too much this year. I am 6-4 and on any boeing product my knees are simply dead pressed against the seat back. I can usually tell when the moron in front of me will fail to take notice that I am quite tall and will try to push the seat back...my knees are not going anywhere and neither is the seat back in front of me. if they turn around to see the problem I am always happy to ask them how long it was going to take them to realize that the seat was NOT moving? I am a very r\frequent flyer and tall thus I am very aware that the person behind me deserves a bit of courtesy as well.

airbus product is a bit better provisioned but let's face it, some airlines like to pack the passengers in a bit tighter than others.

not easy to be tall and have to fly coach:(

I used to fly a whole lot, and have suffered just about every imaginable hassle. If someone pulled this crap on me, the airline would have to address it or else they would hear flak from me until they did. Usually they are extremely sensitive about anyone messing with their equipment so I find it hard to believe they have not already set forth a ban on these gadgets or any other means of tampering.

No doubt it's much like driving a bus full of school children some days with the sense of entitlement some people have. Here's the the thing, the cheap fares, lack of personal space, and a million other things have made air travel basically like a GreyHound bus now.

I used to fly a lot more than I do now, but I decided because of all the hassles at the airports that I'll drive if I can. Airline seats, and what they do to my knees (I'm well over 6 ft tall) are a big part of the problem

It helps that I got a newer car recently, and both that one and my wife's car are comfortable and economical long-range highway cruisers.

Last month, I visited relatives in FL, taking roughly 1 1/2 days to get there from northern NJ and it was quite a pleasure compared to flying. My wife commented repeatedly how we didn't have to worry about leg room, how comfortable the seats were compared to airline ones, how we didn't have to queue, could set our own departure time, etc.

Asshats and cattle. This is your attitude and compassion for other people? I guess its a good think you are not a doctor or EMT.

I travel a lot. I lean my seat back. Deal with it.

This is really shaping up to be one of the stupidestestest threads ever.

I haven't been on a Greyhound bus a few decades but I'll take a WAG that they are a hell of a lot more luxurious and roomy than a domestic airliner these days.

A few years ago we finished some work in Las Vegas earlier than anticipated. Best flight I could get out early was from San Diego. The young men working for me wanted an extra night in Vegas...

Rather than rent a car, I took an early bus out from mcc right to Lindbergh. Wifi, big seats, hauled serious hinnie non stop.

The biggest difference in air travel the last fifteen years is the nearly complete absence of decorum throughout.

We take Greyhound-type buses on Tech Scouts sometimes. Not Greyhound, put private ones that are pretty nice.

Nope, he says its an inside joke. But, I have friends on this boards who are also pilots, and I know they would never say things like that on a public forum.

C'mon, Motion. Even I refer to economy as cattle class - and I am one of the herd. A pilot's job is just to get the cattle hauler to destination safely & on time (when possible). And it's up to the poor FAs to herd us on/off & slop us. We are just seat-fillers - nothing more.

Ian

Compassion for other people would be to NOT recline in their laps.

You have obviously never been to an airline forum.

imcarthur for president!!

I do too! But, I'm not a pilot!

I fail on the residency requirement. I am 3 years short.

Good, you had me worried. ;)

Ian

Sorry but this is a dramatic exaggeration and doesn't serve the discussion well.... The seat reclines about 5".