Was robbed yesterday. Time for protection.

[berettafan]

there was a story on the snarky news recently that mentioned a police station offering to host CL deals. neat idea.

btw, while I LOVE my guns and believe my right to own them is actually a responsibility as an American I would suggest we'd all rather be telling the OP's story than one of a shootout and death over some cash and a cell phone.

[Super_Dave_D]

I carry the Sig P238, perfect for the pocket. If you carry a gun, train with it and know it very well. Nothing is worse than someone carrying a gun having never shot with it.

Additionally, meet in a gun store parking lot during the day. Plenty of people and they are all armed lol.

[vash]

Chit. Scary! I am so paranoid with craigslist deals. I arrive early and get vehicle (and offer) descriptions. I never go alone. Public meets as well.

Not so sure my methods would work on a big equipment deal. You almost have to go on their terms.

Glad nobody got hurt. Not so sure a concealed carry would have helped here.

I don't even stop to help broken down motorist anymore. Bait for a mugging now.

[vash]

Smith and Wesson 686p. Stainless. 357 mag.

Too many choices in handguns. You almost can't go wrong.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I've never gone to a meeting unarmed and usually the other guy was open carrying or brought a large friend. I go to every one of these deals assuming the other guy is armed and that he assumed I'm armed.

So, it's come down to this. You need to bring guns and backup when buying stuff from an on-line ad now? Jeezus...what's the world coming to?
As mentioned before, would it really be wise to pull a gun on some scumbag who's already pointing one at you? Just giving them what they want may be the more prudent decision in this case. And what if you did manage to shoot the guy? If you kill him, you're in deep legal schit. This isn't a TV show...you can't just go around shooting people in the street without going down some bureaucratic rathole that'll take a lot of time & money to climb out of. And if you only manage to wound him, you stand a good chance of being sued for everything you've got. Especially if the perp has a partner along who'll back his his version of the incident saying that you were the aggressor.
Yes, I know that either of these alternatives are preferable to being shot and possibly killed. But if this is what it takes to sell stuff on-line anymore, I'd just as soon dontate it to some charity and not put myself in this kind of situation to begin with.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I like this gun (or similar) and much of the rationale for a CC weapon (a bigger one for home protection). That said, I personally would not be using any "special" bullets that are designed to do "maximum damage to tissue" as I believe that would put me in a very poor position with regards to the inevitable lawsuit after punching a few holes in the offending party. He or his family might end up with all of your money anyways. I would use whatever the police use in my local area (maybe the ones you named?).

IMHO, if the first bullet does not have the desired effect, pump a couple more into the same general area.

I've read that rationale before, and I guess it could be true. But I shoot semi-wadcutters I cast myself and Hornady XTP jhp's I reload. I use them at the range because I'm cheap and I'm going to carry what I shoot at the range. I have my sights adjusted for the ammo I use.

Are there cases where a legitimate self defense shooting resulted in legal liability to the shooter due to the chosen ammo, or is this warning based on speculation?

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

Yesterday, my dad and I met a lady about a Kubota mower on craigslist here in Memphis. We were surprised by a man with a pistol. He robbed us of our cash and cell phones. I always wondered if I would possess the guts to actually shoot another human. That question has been answered.

So what events led up to this Jurgen? Were you two looking at the mower when the guy shows up unannounced? Did he have his pistol out or was he wearing it and then pulled it? Was this at a residence and if so was the lady involved/robbed or an accomplice?

I have done many CL deals at my home, at other homes, and in public places. I never felt like I was in danger - perhaps I am very selective in the process. Or just lucky. I don't know the rules in CA but I am guessing if I shot someone who was taking my wallet and phone I would go to jail for the remainder of my life. Perhaps if the guy was armed as in your situation it would be more in my favor.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

Having a concealed weapon and using it against somebody with a handgun gives you odds of at the most 50% of succeeding. Not very good odds.

Yeah, and as Abe Lincoln once said, "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."

Where do you get this stuff? The likelihood of having to use a concealed weapon is way, way below 50% once it's been drawn. Very few robbers are willing to shoot it out over a wallet and cell phone; they just don't figure on getting an armed response, since they likely never will. Pull a gun out of your back pocket when he thinks you're pulling a wallet out and he'll likely run to the hills. I don't know if it's legal or customary in TN, but open carry is in AZ. So, when I go to make a gun deal in the local Sportsman's Warehouse parking lot, I ride the bike and open carry. That ensures a smooth transaction every time. A bad guy would take one look and keep on driving. A good guy wouldn't hesitate to complete the deal.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by vash

Smith and Wesson 686p. Stainless. 357 mag.

Too many choices in handguns. You almost can't go wrong.

Well, you can't go wrong with that suggestion.

[fintstone]

Taz
Yes. I have read about such cases. Remember, a civil case can have a bleeding heart jury who sympathize with the poor fellow's family. After all, he was just trying to feed his kids and meant no harm. He is a product of a broken family and it is really not his fault. You could have easily shot him in the leg with a standard round instead of blowing his leg off. Now he can't work and deserves compensation.

If it were me, I would practice mostly with the homeloaded rounds to save money...but I would put enough of a standard round through the gun that I was comfortable with it and use those for daily CC or home protection.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by fintstone

If you were "surprised" by a man with a gun ..., that might be a problem in of itself. A "surprised" man and a gun usually gets themselves (or their Dad) killed. Secondly, think about the utility of a gun in this situation. If you had a gun, would you have been able to defend yourself or would he have just taken that as well? Surely you would not have reached for a gun when he had the "drop" on you and surely you would not have drawn and shot him in the back as he fled after not harming you....

+1 on this stuff.

Originally Posted by fintstone

Do you think/know if the lady with the mower was involved? Obviously the timing was excellent for the thief to catch you there with cash.

I was thinking the same thing.

[J P Stein]

IF you want to deal with the situation described usng a fire arm, you need to practice shooting off hand......like from your pocket. This takes practice X 10 in all aspects.....but .22 is cheep.

Lethality is NOT the object, getting rounds, by supprise, in the target is.
If your perp has several rounds of .22 LR in sensetive body parts ( like groin area, knees, or other joints.)....he'll quit.

If he don't you should have time to put a carefully aimed round between his running lights.

I would be supprised if such a confrontation would take place from more than 10 feet away. The .22 has little to no recoil, is easy to hold on target, and probably won't even light your jacket pocket on fire.

Wather P22 is ideal.....use top grade ammo to prevent jams.....cause you're gonna need 5 rounds in 4 seconds. Your perp will figure it out.,,,,you have 5 rounds left.

If not, keep your gun at home.

I do like the looks of that holster.

[thethrill]

Firearms are great! However if you carry a firearm you must mentally prepared and trained to take someone's life. Ever heard of buck fever? Ask any hunter. Anyone can punch holes in paper - shooting someone quite a different story. The mental side takes a long time to become proficient. It's almost never mastered. for people,who have not trained mentally to use a firearm against a person carry a quality mace. It's good for 20 feet away and is easy to use. it will put someone down and is non lethal - easier to hit your target than a gun. Most confrontations happen within 7 feet! Are you prepared for the aftermath after you shoot someone? Shooting someone in your home is quite different than shooting someone when out and about.

Bottom line be prepared - know your surroundings and be aware of who and what is around you.

As for firearms the smith 642 is a great pocket gun. It's hammerless. Just pull the trigger. It's stainless so no rust. There is not a slide to go back and forth. You can shoot it inside your coat pocket. As for pistols I like the smith m&p series as well as the glocks. With these strike fire type actions the trigger pull is the same for all shots. For me that is an advantage over the typical DA pistols like a Sig Sauer. For home defense a 12guage pump.

If your serious about carrying a firearm 24/7 get professional training at a facility such as gun site or another professional training facility.

[RANDY P]

That sucks, that really, really sucks man.

Find something that isn't obtrusive to carry- so you won't be inclined to leave it behind, and make sure you spend a lot of time at the range, aiming properly and controlling flinches and kickback is harder than it looks.

I like revolvers myself- simple, goes bang every time and you can let them sit forever without hassles (mag springs).

rjp

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Originally Posted by fintstone View Post
If you were "surprised" by a man with a gun ..., that might be a problem in of itself. A "surprised" man and a gun usually gets themselves (or their Dad) killed. Secondly, think about the utility of a gun in this situation. If you had a gun, would you have been able to defend yourself or would he have just taken that as well? Surely you would not have reached for a gun when he had the "drop" on you and surely you would not have drawn and shot him in the back as he fled after not harming you….

+1 on this stuff.

+2 Unless you're a quick draw artist…And prepared to kill..., holding a concealed gun in this situation would only mean one more thing for this opportunist to take from you. Also, if he saw the gun, he just might have shot first as a first reaction.

There are many crime situations where owning or carrying a gun can protect you or others. This is probably not one of those situations.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

Wather P22 is ideal.....use top grade ammo to prevent jams.....cause you're gonna need 5 rounds in 4 seconds. Your perp will figure it out.,,,,you have 5 rounds left.

I like my P22 a lot, but I would never rely on it for self defense. It is simply not reliable enough.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Taz
Yes. I have read about such cases. Remember, a civil case can have a bleeding heart jury who sympathize with the poor fellow's family. After all, he was just trying to feed his kids and meant no harm. He is a product of a broken family and it is really not his fault. You could have easily shot him in the leg with a standard round instead of blowing his leg off. Now he can't work and deserves compensation.

If it were me, I would practice mostly with the homeloaded rounds to save money...but I would put enough of a standard round through the gun that I was comfortable with it and use those for daily CC or home protection.

Perhaps good advice. If I need to shoot someone, it will be the worst day of my life. But I'm not going to be going through my ammo inventory before taking the shot. If an atty can make the case that my being cheap shows a malicious intent, then maybe I deserve what happens.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by rcooled

So, it's come down to this. You need to bring guns and backup when buying stuff from an on-line ad now?

Not at all. If you don't want to carry, then don't. You have to weigh all the factors. Are you telling an Internet stranger that you're bringing $800 in cash with you to a parking lot at night to buy a pair of PA speakers? Or are you meeting up with someone with a high post count and stellar reputation from a local chat board on guns, who also happens to be a cop (I've done this plenty of times)? I carry all the time, so it's not much effort to put on an OC holster when the deal involves guns or lots of cash. OC'ing pretty much guarantees a smooth transaction or that the other guy, if a criminal, drives by and then no-shows. If you don't like it, stick with PayPal and pay them 4% to cover butt, plus shipping.

[RANDY P]

S&W Bodyguard .38- shrouded hammer so it doesn't get caught on stuff....

[BlueSkyJaunte]

It's amazing how the internet brings out "experts" who have never even handled a gun before, let alone fired a shot in self-defense.