How important is church? Need your advice

[Icemaster]

What would you have said if they responded "can't, mom's 85'th birthday party". Just for a different perspective.

I grew up religious, which is why I'm not today. It's a priority question for them, this is their priority. Don't read more into it than is there - sometimes you have to make choices; this was theirs. Trust your instincts, if it's not for you then bail - the reason doesn't matter.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by javadog

Flex time, vacation time, etc. Everybody has it.



Every church I've ever run across has services on more than one day a week, and usually at multiple times on Sunday. Seems to me the idea is to allow people to attend when it meets their personal schedules best. I can't say I have a single friend that attends church, that goes to every service offered each week.

JR

No, everyone does not get flex time or vacation time...and many that do get vacation time cannot take it whenever they choose. It as to be scheduled far in advance where it does not conflict with their duties or schedules of others.

There are lots of churches that only have service on Sunday...and lots of folks that believe that they must attend on Sunday. Even when there are more than one servce, they are often not duplicatve (Sunday School vs worship servce). While they may also attend other days/services, that does not mean they can skip Sunday. Doing what God commands is not exactly like scheduling an oil change.

I recently had a couple in their 80s visit me for a few days. Even though traveling, they would not consider not going to church on Sunday. If we dd not go, they would find a church and go on their own. The wife stated that she had not missed church on Sunday for over 60 years and was not about to start. She fell and broke her leg last Sat and still went to church on Sunday (tough for someone her age).

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I disagree. I know plenty of religious folks who would consider missing church to plan a remodel to be a terrible thing to do and would not consider it. It is not the least bit flexible (services are exactly when they are)...and I find it hard to believe that a priest would miss church on Sunday to arrange his bathroom remodel. It would have never flown in the church I attended.

I agree with what you stated here; however, that only addresses the customer side of this discussion. look 171 has to weigh the availability of the customer to provide critical inputs that look 171 needs to succeed. If that availability isn't provided, then it's a reasonable decision to not take on the project. Why take on a project and take the customer's money when the likelihood of failure, or at least dissatisfaction, is high?

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

My experience with people whom don't have faith, are judgmental and hypocritical of those who do, and look down on the faithful and are intolerant of all religions.

Islam, Judaism, Christians, most wars are because these groups. That in is self should be good reason to be intolerant of religions.

I try not to look down on the faithful, I look past them like they are not even there.

Unless you are a Muslim, the number of faithful will continue to decline. People, today no longer swallow the story of creation, it wasn't created in 6 days 6,000 years ago like the bible says and science has proved that. Feel free to believe what you like, it matters not to me.

I chose to not interact with those of faith because of a bunch of lying white trash Ho's that attend the slander center down the road from me. This group of fine Christians has tried to ruin my life, one of the Ho's thought I was going to be her boyfriend and when that didn't happen her and her friends started in.

When I became aware of the situation, I contacted the minister that started the church almost 20 years ago. He is no longer there, he started another church about 5 years ago. He informed me that the lies and slander had been going on a lot longer than I knew and that is why he walked away from something he spent almost 20 years building.

Fine group of neighbors wouldn't you say.

[fintstone]

Jim
I don't disagree. The only thing I disagree with is the characterization of the couple who apparently took their commitment strongly enough to put it ahead of their personal need to plan their remodel. While I don't know the folks and rarely attend church myself, I have to give them credit for doing what they thought right.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

My experience with people of faith, they are judgemental and hypocrites, they look down on non believers and are intolerant of other religions.

If you have plenty of work, steer clear, it will save you problems down the road.

Funny you should mention " judgmental and hypocrites" as that is one of the best examples of both I have ever seen.

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Funny you should mention " judgmental and hypocrites" as that is NE of the best examples of both I have ever seen.

A lot better example would be the one you see in a mirror every morning when you rise.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

A lot better example would be the one you see in a mirror every morning when you rise.

I thought only a juvenile would say that. I guess it is those missing 8 IQ points speaking for you again.

[t-tom]

I think some of you are missing the point. When you join a Church and make a commitment to be active in the church, you are doing just that. Making a commitment. I would rather work with people that make a commitment and stick to it rather than just blow it off. My Kids go to Catholic Schools and I coach Basketball / Golf for the school. It is not always easy or convenient but it is a commitment I made so I do it. I guess that's just not the LA Way.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Church has nothing to do with it.

If you want the job, work in the schedule, set your price, and do the job.

If you don't want the job, don't do it. Or, do the stereotype GC move and bid the job at 200% and see if they bite.

I'm going to go with Gogar on this one. Church has nothing to do with this. I think this is more a time issue with the original poster. He has posted before http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/843138-put-foot-my-mouth-now-my-kid-might-have-pay.html that he feels his time is an important quantity, and I think that is more the issue here than religion. Just bid it high and blow them off. You are not going to change them, and will probably just get frustrated in the process of trying to deal with them.

To the original poster (Look 171), sometimes we don't see the meaning or value in what others find important. So you don't find religion that important. Some people do. Time is important too. Just acknowledge and move on, brother. We are not all the same.

[aschen]

how important is church time? To me not even the tiniest bit.

However, that doesnt have anything to do with your question. 93.78% of the population doesnt want to work on sunday. Its great that you can/will. Exploit that raritly to people who want it.

If your schedule doesnt align with these folks, no big deal. It is no cause for drama, or to judge them, or to judge yourself for maybe judjing them.

If you are willing to adapt a bit for the work, and want it by all means. IF you dont, dont. It really is that clear cut.

I bought my house from a family that would not do anything on the weekend. Not even answer calls from their realtor. It drove me a bit crazy, but they listed it as a constraint in their add from day one, so I couldent really complain

[Baz]

As a contractor myself - I run into situations on occasion where the client is their own worst enemy. Some are collaborators and others are competitors.

In this situation, the client appears to have an urgency - but not enough to cancel their church activities.

To a contractor - that could come across as a mixed message.

Priorities are just that - priorities. If they value their church activities more than assisting with project scheduling then that's up to them.

Every situation is different......so let's not go down the road of generalizing about either contractors or clients.

They each have their own approach and their own skill set to handle projects.

If it's a red flag for you Look.....then it should be heeded.

[VaSteve]

Where are the usual suspects that bark PARF anytime something slightly PorR comes up?

The premise of this thread, while maybe well intentioned or not thought out is flawed.

[AFC-911]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

What would you have said if they responded "can't, mom's 85'th birthday party". Just for a different perspective.

It won't be her birthday every Sunday until the job is finished?

[Head416]

First they say that Sundays are the only days they are available. Then they cannot be accomodating on Sundays. If church can't bend, then something else needs to. I wouldnt deal with them.

If they said Sundays are out because of church but offered to make time on some other day, that would be different.

[Charles Freeborn]

Business is business and everything else is just that. I've been in business for going on 35 years and I have never discriminated based on religion, politics or otherwise. I would draw the line at criminals and illegal activities. I also do choose to do business or not with individuals whom I can't "connect" with, which means to me that the interaction would be un-productive.
I never change my fee structure based on any sort of prejudice, as that is dishonest and can damage my reputation.
So, if your profession requires that you have access to your clients on both days of the weekend, you'll have to either work around that restriction (charge overtime for evening weekday visits) or decline the job. Be honest with them about this fact, without being judgemental.
-C

[vash]

Finding a GREAT contractor is a gift from heaven.

I'd ditch church to meet with one. This is a case of who wants what more.

[mikesride]

Well...obviously for this couple that time is committed for...
I also have never attended a church service but, if you had asked me the same at a time I had a hockey game, a work commitment or a band practice I would have said the same... The team is not complete without me there (I'm the goalie) work...well that's work and band practice is a commitment I've made to four other guys that my voice, my bass and guitar will be there...
So while I cant comment directly on how important is church to these folks....the answer is pretty obviously very important.
I think the right decision is to pass on the job if you feel there will be many time conflicts like this.
That also does not make the OP a shady contractor....in fact its the opposite of such, a smart business man that once he understands the prospects expectations understands there will be somebody else out there that will be better suited to serve them on their terms.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by look 171

I have to make up some excuse(that's the easy part) but really want to tell them the truth. .

Tell the truth but keep the religion out of it. You guys get along. They respect your opinion. You care about their predicament.

If you haven't spoken with them already- Let them know from someone they trust:

1. It's a tight time frame.
2. The most important issue as these projects go along is having a means of meeting/communication to address contingencies, snafus, etc... otherwise you run into trouble.
3. It needs to go right(meaning you will need to meet regularly) or they will be on their a$$ when the rental goes out.
4. You were already busy, and were trying to work them in because of your reference friend, but unfortunately, the only day you can meet (Sunday mornings) is not going to work. Acknowledge that they are busy on Sunday mornings, and you have your commitments in the afternoon, so it's not going to work.

Give them a good faith estimate to give them an idea of what it should cost for reference, tell them they need to find a contractor that can fit them in better to their schedule, and give them some basic GC tips- avoiding lowball offers, etc... This way, you aren't condemning, but educating, so they can find someone who can get it done. You've done your part, and they can make their own decisions based on what is important to them.

[JavaBrewer]

Kudos to Jeff for offering his Sunday to meet with them. I think you made the best decision by refusing the job. Initial talks and planning should never be that hard. Can't imagine the stress as the move in date approaches and decisions/changes need to happen. I am having a new driveway installed and organized my work schedule around weekday afternoons to meet contractors for bids on the job. That, IMO, is the norm.

The whole church thing is highly dependent on the individual. There is no one size fits all. Our daughter goes to church every Wed & Fri evening. Sometimes on Sunday if she can get a ride. Depending on the church there is flexibility in the schedule. These new homeowners are in uncharted waters. Don't be surprised if they call you back with a more flexible schedule when a couple weeks go by and they can't even get a GC to return their calls

Originally Posted by look 171

I am working with this young couple who bought an old house and they are interested in two bathroom restoration as well as some other items that are absolutely necessary before they can move in. Some how they found me through a relative. I met up with them twice after hours in the freaking dark and we hit it off pretty well. I tried to schedule a meeting today, on Sunday because one of them works on Saturday so I am very understanding about client's work schedules. I wanted to take my kids out for a bike ride and feed the ducks around the lake due to the beautiful weather this time of the year so I tried to schedule this meeting in the morning. I got," We can't. Church, and we have to do some more church stuff after that, so best time would be after 2pm." They have been begging me to do this for them from the very beginning since they reviewed my design. I don't go to church and am not religious at all, so am I asking for too much? They want to go to church, hang out after but also want to move in because they are under the gun with their rental.

I found out Sunday is church day and it is very important to them apparently. Can they make it up some other time or miss a day? I made my decision over lunch this afternoon to not take the job due to their inability to be flexible with their leisure time. Plus, our plate is very full with projects. I will inform them tomorrow during regular hours. I have to make up some excuse(that's the easy part) but really want to tell them the truth. So for those of you who go to church every Sunday, is it something one must do or can it be done another time? I am just trying to understand what's going on so I will know next time.