California's Water - Crisis?

[ZLP]

COWSPIRACY: The Sustainability Secret

[daepp]

I read about the first 10 pages, then left the discussion for a few days - my apologies if the following has been covered:
RuSnak and others - is the following correct:
- much of SJV farmers' water comes from wells?
- some of their water comes from elsewhere via aqueducts?
- some of the dams in CA were built and owned by farmers?
If any of that is true, wouldn't it take a massive infrastructure project over many years just to divert the "waters" I mentioned to other uses? And wouldn't some of that work require confiscation of farmers' infrastructure?

In other words, with all of the talk in the media (and here) about ag water consumption, wouldn't we be years (decades?) away from a solution, even if you had all the property rights already settled?

[rusnak]

daep:

1. yes
2. yes, and the aqueducts serve cities such as L.A. and S.F. also
3. no. the Feds built them.
4. no, water is diverted every day and moved about the state.

The issue is in the short term, cutting back on mandated environmental water releases, which is just stupid and wasteful in drought years, and in the long term building more water storage on the scale of San Luis Reservoir, on both the San Joaquin and Kings rivers.

[daepp]

No, I get your larger point about the environmental wasted water.
I am aware of at least a few dams built by citrus farmers in So Cal to ensure stable, year round water and just wondered/assumed about others.
Regarding your/my last point, then you're suggesting that it's physically possible, on short notice, to shift ag water to municipal use?
For example, where I live in So Cal we pump all of our drinking water out of an aquifer that's replenished by the local mountain watershed via spreading. It's hard for me to imagine the physical work that would be required to fill our storage tanks by other means, but I have no expertise in this area.

[daepp]

Regarding more dams - Browne needs to build these rather than the boondoggle bullet train. Wasn't there a big one planned in the hills above Sacramento? No think I remember it getting killed. And what was that controversial peripheral canal supposed to do? Did it fill dams?

[tadink]

Great thread -

couple of things - I read recently about the volume of CA water that is being used for fracking - seems an odd use for a scarce resource. I looked for the data but could not find a good source - maybe someone else can find something?

Second - conservation is all well and good, but if the supply is inadequate there is a fundamental problem. I've recently run across a company in AUS doing water-desal aboard ships, powering the process by wind and wave energy. Seems an interesting idea whose time may have come - Seadov This presents a number of options without chewing up valuable (expensive) coastal lands.....thoughts?

keep the discussion alive!

td

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by daepp

No, I get your larger point about the environmental wasted water.
I am aware of at least a few dams built by citrus farmers in So Cal to ensure stable, year round water and just wondered/assumed about others.
Regarding your/my last point, then you're suggesting that it's physically possible, on short notice, to shift ag water to municipal use?
For example, where I live in So Cal we pump all of our drinking water out of an aquifer that's replenished by the local mountain watershed via spreading. It's hard for me to imagine the physical work that would be required to fill our storage tanks by other means, but I have no expertise in this area.

Yes, Ag and municipalities share the same water system. There is no such thing as "Ag water" or "city water".

Some of your water is watershed. The rest is percolation from rainfall. If your property tax bill includes an irrigation district, then you have one close by.

P.S.: around here, if a farmer were to build a dam on any river, stream, creek, etc he would be in huge trouble. You have all of the downstream riparian water users for one, and the State and Feds on you for another.

Edit: One exception: L.A. Dept Water and Power did buy the Owens Valley water rights, so that is "city water" I suppose.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by daepp

Regarding more dams - Browne needs to build these rather than the boondoggle bullet train. Wasn't there a big one planned in the hills above Sacramento? No think I remember it getting killed. And what was that controversial peripheral canal supposed to do? Did it fill dams?

Temperence Flats, which was going to be massive, above Friant Dam, was killed off.

The stupid bullet train needs to be terminated, and the money used for water storage.

[Rikao4]

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by rusnak

The stupid bullet train needs to be terminated, and the money used for water storage.

This.

[Tobra]

I think San Francisco owns Hetch Hetchy, which I have always found to be a bit ironic, given the lip service the denizens of that burgh give to environmentalism.

Originally Posted by daepp

Regarding more dams - Browne needs to build these rather than the boondoggle bullet train. Wasn't there a big one planned in the hills above Sacramento? No think I remember it getting killed. And what was that controversial peripheral canal supposed to do? Did it fill dams?

Auburn Dam, killed by Robert Matsui, after they built a bridge to go over the reservoir that never happened because there was no dam.

Peripheral canal was to take water from the Sacramento River to SoCal going around the delta, hence the "peripheral" moniker.

[rusnak]

^ x10000. You really do get it. I am impressed.

[ZLP]

15% is just to grow alfalfa. The 2012 Pacific Institute study states that the overall water footprint of meat and dairy in California is 47%

[rusnak]

You see, this is why I'm so critical of the Left.

They just vapidly go along with what they are told, if it's presented in a way that looks stylish, even if it's a lie.

Let's examine the Cow thing:

Almonds 10%
Alfalfa 15%
Meat and Dairy 47%

That's 72%,

and we still have not counted grapes, wine, peaches, nectarines, lettuce, artichoke, avocado, pears, tomatoes, carrots, squash, pumpkins, watermelon, pistachios, oranges, grapefruit, cotton

AND:

Dont forget the mandatory water releases from the dams, to both allow the fish to swim up river, and to desalinate the San Francisco forebay.

AND:

All of the drinking water, bathing water, sewer treatment, lawns, swimming pools, water to wash your car, water used in industrial production and fighting fires, etc etc. for tens of millions of people every day

Wow, we do a heck of a lot with 28% for the entire state of California.

[dlockhart]

[SoCal911T]

This should really help things.

[Tobra]

Dude, hello, the Onion, it is satire.

It seems that if the alfalfa is grown as feed for cattle, shouldn't that 15% be included in the 47% for Meat and Dairy? See, I just increased our water use to 115% which is like turning it up to eleven and a half. Take that, Spinal Tap!

The way it looks like this will shake out to me is that the dumbasses like myself, who have been conserving water since they were little kids, are going to get hammered for failing to cut their water use by 25% It was easy for me to take a Navy shower when I got there, because that is how I did it since before high school. If Jerry Brown is so smart, how is it that he is just noticing we have a problem? At least people will be able to get from Fresno to Bakersfield on the "bullet" train, thank goodness for that.

I bet they have not built any new water storage since I was born, and I am pretty GD old. Okay I checked, looks like they have built about a dozen since I was born. Increased the storage capacity a few percent and doubled the population. I just don't understand why there is a problem They could even build underground cisterns, so the hippies would not whine about building dams and killing snail darters. If it were not so freakishly tragic, it would be hilarious.

[ZLP]

Like washing your car less is going to help....

[Jolly Amaranto]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Dude, hello, the Onion, it is satire.

But it is still funny. Conserving sea water, which is not the problem.

[Tidybuoy]

I live in Fresno, CA which is dead center of the state and a hot climate (over 100 for a couple months in the summer).

We definitely have water restrictions. I'm am allowed to water outdoors 2 days a week and only before 6am or after 6pm. During the winter months, we are allowed to water 1 day a week (although I don't need to water that often during foggy months).

I'm pretty certain that our water rules are going to get even stricter and will probably be reduced to 1 day a week year round.

For the past few years, I had a sprinkler that would not shut off completely and had a slow drip. That was until the water police showed up at my door. The lady was very nice and told me that the city records showed that I had a leak. She came with a 30-day hourly useage graph. After this visit, I got my sprinkler fixed and I'm glad I did! One of those nagging projects that needed to be done.

I don't really like the big-brother is watching effect but it definitely changed my behavior. I would like to see more public service announcements like tips on saving water rather than the announcements of fines and penalties.