FORD Engine nightmare

[yetibone]

I've had 7 plugs break off in a 2005 with 174k on the factory plugs before. Each broken plug adds an hour to the job, and sure, it's a pain to fix, but I've never had to behead a modular Ford for sake of a broken spark plug, or wrecked threads. Sometimes, small pieces of the ceramic insulator will end up in the cylinder, and that will make some noise upon start up, however it passes out the exhaust valve in less than a minute, and does no damage. Larger pieces, or the center electrode dropping in would call for some other measures.

Extraction tools are available from lots of suppliers these days. I got mine from Lisle about 8 years ago, and it's always done the job well.

My trick is get it hot, pull the coils, hose each hole down with PB Blaster, and take them out in the morning with a 3/8" impact, and a deep 9/16 socket.

Autolite makes a plug now that addresses this problem. Time will tell if they are really effective in coming out in one piece.

[A930Rocket]

Must be the later 5.4's. I changed the plugs on my 2001 F150 with the 5.4 2-3 times starting at 100K the first time. Traded it in a few months ago with 220K and no issues (besides a rebuilt trans at 180K).

[Bugsinrugs]

I'd like to thank the engine designers at Ford for making tools and videos like this possible. These guys should be shot.

[yetibone]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Must be the later 5.4's. I changed the plugs on my 2001 F150 with the 5.4 2-3 times starting at 100K the first time. Traded it in a few months ago with 220K and no issues (besides a rebuilt trans at 180K).

AFAIK, only the 24 valve V8's and 30 valve V10's made before 2009 or so had this problem.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Laneco

Ford will generally want to pull the heads on the 5.4 to do even one plug per bank, so it's a virtual guarantee that they will take them both off for this job, even before we get to the fact that bits are in the cylinder... Some dealerships even want to sell you a new head(s).Definitely do the thread repair on EVERY one of them, even if the stub of the spark plug comes out good. At this point - do them all, make them all the same.

We have a buddy here in town who will do these with the head on (though probably not for 8 of 8 broken). He does them FOR the Ford dealership. They just send the vehicle over to him. Definitely a trick to it.

Also when removing plugs on these, his advice is roughly as follows..."Get the motor hotter than a drunk prom date, squirt around the plugs with your favorite break-free product. Let it sit over night and remove them when they're ice cold."

Obviously a bit late for that advice now.

angela

^^^ This - no good mechanic should need this advice, ESPECIALLY after breaking off the first!

G

[aigel]

I thought of my 97 F-150 as an overall POS experience. The engine is shoved under the dash to where it is a maintenance nightmare, the French heater core takes a weekend to change once it goes (including special tools to disconnect) and the head gasket went at 200k. Well, 200k is nothing to sneeze at, but repairing it!!! I did only the bad side I was so fed up with it. Got it back running and off it went to gardener duty with the new owner!

G

[Dan J]

Why would anyone buy a Ford? I just don't know

[URY914]

I got the V-6 in my short bed 150. 80K and runs like a top.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by pete3799

This is worth watching. He makes it look easy.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by Dan J

Why would anyone buy a Ford? I just don't know

Because they make great vehicles.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Because they make great vehicles.

fixed it for ya..

[DanielDudley]

I see guys pulling those plugs with an impact these days, and the whole plug just comes right out. Some threads about that on other forums, and a video somewhere...

[tabs]

Originally Posted by aigel

I thought of my 97 F-150 as an overall POS experience. The engine is shoved under the dash to where it is a maintenance nightmare, the French heater core takes a weekend to change once it goes (including special tools to disconnect) and the head gasket went at 200k. Well, 200k is nothing to sneeze at, but repairing it!!! I did only the bad side I was so fed up with it. Got it back running and off it went to gardener duty with the new owner!

G

My 98 F150 4.6L 2 Valve has 150K and the Heater Core just went... I started to smell coolant in the cabin and see mist with the AC on? My friends told me to breath in deeply...anyway you have to pull the whole dash out to fix it...so it is an expensive fix. Also am doing frt and rear brakes which is reflected in the totals below.

So far in nearly 17 years...A rear Brake line leaked, 3 batteries including original one (2nd Batt. lasted 9 years), 4 th set of front brakes including original ones, 3 sets of rear brakes including original (original set lasted about 15 years), 3 sets of tires including original (2nd set lasted almost 11 years), replaced fuel pump, replaced complete AC system, replaced Alternator after 16 years, 4th coil packs and spark plugs including original (parts went bad on 3rd time was still under warranty). Most of the repairs/replacements have been done in the past 3 or 4 years...stuff just wears out with time.

I figure it this way, it is costing me roughly 1000 to 1500 a year now to fix, divided by 12 = $80.00 to $125.00 a month. Which is less than a payment, also have cheaper Registration fees of $79.00 a year..Then you have the depreciation curve on a new or newer vehicle....

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

I can see an owner (but not a shop) breaking one or maybe two. After that, wouldn't anyone with half a brain pause and rethink this?????

It is not anything the wrench did wrong. They just don't come out . There is no real technique to get them out that is fool proof. I had one , where they all came out. The last one I did, 5 broke.
I have my best luck with the motor HOT, and I use my 3/8" electric impact to walk them out. This only works on the front ones that are easy to access. The rear ones are a pia to get at.
It is the design of the plug. After 75 years of trouble free spark plug design, Ford had to re do it.
Here is what they look like, and how they break.
..


This is reason # 1 why I will not own a gas Ford truck. Huge pia, that is not a matter of if, but when...

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by jorian

A friend has a F350 Powerstroke. He needed a new head gasket. $7800. Required removing the body from the frame. 30 hours of labour. I thought only Audi designed this way.

I just bought one of these cheap that was smoking BADLY . 2008, 6.4. It ended up being a bad turbo, but I decided that while I was in there, I would lift the heads, stud it, and bullet proof it. I wish I would have left it alone
112,000 miles and this motor was toast. I ended up buying two new heads, complete valve train, two turbos, and a timing cover.
I had 6.5 k in parts and if I had to charge for labor , it would have been around 4k.
Crying shame, that a 45 thousand dollar diesel truck that has been maintained, and not abused, is this far gone at such a low mileage. This truck was owned by an older guy, no tuner, and not abused.
While I love the way this truck runs now, I am scared to own it long term. Nearly every repair is cab off, and parts prices make Porsche ownership look cheap .
The diesel shop quoted him 18k to repair it. ( they wanted to replace the motor ) . Built Ford tough ( tough to work on )
In fords defense it is Navisatar/international who builds the diesel motors of this era.

[ASD]

The 5.4 is a 3 Valve. Ford dealer is very well aware of what they have to do to change the plugs and they charge 400 no matter how many break.
The private shop of course did not charge me anything, and apologized profusely. I have been using them for 15 years for the stuff I can't or won't do on my own. My last vehicle was a V10 Excursion, I never changed the plugs and it ran great at 160K.
The 5.4 and 4.6 and the V10s all have plug issues. Supposedly there is a new plug that is not as susceptible to breaking, and everyone should by now know the routine of spraying lube in the plug hole, cracking the plugs a little and then slowly turning them to get them out. Even heard of some using a gun to remove them, though I wasn't about to try that on aluminum heads.
Everyone except the tech working on mine. I am hopeful for good news from Ford today. Also that it won't break my bank account.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"redesign for redesign's sake". Same thing the computer / IT world does constantly with similar results

[Scuba Steve]

When I opened this thread I somehow knew that it would be about the awful spark plug design.

But I keep reading about cab off repairs. This is as in, somehow remove the entire cab from the truck?

[930addict]

A friend has a F350 Powerstroke. He needed a new head gasket. $7800. Required removing the body from the frame. 30 hours of labour. I thought only Audi designed this way.

I read about this when I was shopping for a truck. This is why I didn't buy the Ford.

[creaturecat]

The new F250 that i owned, with a 5.4, it returned 9-10 mpg.
No thanks. Good riddance ......
The Ranger (4.0) replacement has been great. 230000 km's, only very basic maintenance needed.