I'm Obsessed with MotoGP

[javadog]

Originally Posted by sand_man

NO SPOILERS, but when the Aragon race is over, I'd like us to have a discussion on Marc Marquez. I'd like to hear what the more experienced users/riders here think is going on with him? Pushing too hard? Riding beyond his own limits? Lack of patience?

Well, he lost the front, but we didn't get to see the video of the entry to the corner. My guess is that he lost it with too much brake pressure.

If you look at MM's career, he's been a little more conservative on full tanks and didn't really push it hard until mid-race, or slightly later. Jorge is capable of getting very fast starts and he can run a high pace from lap 1, so his rivals sometimes feel pressure to match his pace, as they fear him disappearing into the distance. MM probably pushed a little too hard to stay with him, rather than waiting until the tires were hot, the fuel level was lower, and so forth. He should have had faith, bided his time, and caught him towards the end.

The other thing is that this track has traditionally been a track where the Hondas had an advantage in pace over the Yamahas. This year, Yamaha has tested there twice, including recently, and they have upped their pace. Jorge was able to run the same pace as MM, so maybe that was on Marq's mind, as he might have felt he didn't have enough pace to catch him, if he'd gotten a 3 or 4 second lead built up.

The other possibility is the tires, in that it was a little cooler today than it has been all weekend, so he might have needed another lap to get the tires fully hot. The Bridgestones can be pushed really hard but it takes a lot of work to get them fully into their happy range, and it can be hard at certain tracks, or under certain conditions, to get them working at their best.

In the end, it helped Rossi, as he would have finished one more position back if MM had kept it on two wheels.

It's still Lorenzo's championship to lose. There can be rain at any of the remaining four races and Rossi's going to need at least one more wet race to keep a realistic chance of the title.

JR

[dlockhart]

J Lo the metronome. On time all the time. He should win the championship.

However

I imagine even Honda would admit that Rossi winning the championship would be the best financial outcome for the business of motogp. I was half expecting to see a blow gun and tranquilizer dart targeted at the pedro-bot after MM93 offed himself.

Dani put in a heck of a ride.

[tevake]

Is there a spec tire in this series , or are the teams free to use what they want.

Great racing today.

I love pulling for the Doctor to win another one.

Cheers Richard

[tevake]

Man what a fantastic battle for second. Over and unders multiple times per lap.
Great, respectful racing!

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by tevake

Is there a spec tire in this series , or are the teams free to use what they want.

Great racing today.

I love pulling for the Doctor to win another one.

Cheers Richard

There are several compounds available from which the riders may choose BUT factory bikes get 1 range while the open bikes get a different range. Typically the open bikes have access to a softer compound.

[sand_man]

Dani's ride today was relentless!!! He would not be deterred by the good doctor!!! I really felt that Rossi had nothing else to throw at him!

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by javadog

If you look at MM's career, he's been a little more conservative on full tanks and didn't really push it hard until mid-race, or slightly later. Jorge is capable of getting very fast starts and he can run a high pace from lap 1, so his rivals sometimes feel pressure to match his pace, as they fear him disappearing into the distance. MM probably pushed a little too hard to stay with him, rather than waiting until the tires were hot, the fuel level was lower, and so forth. He should have had faith, bided his time, and caught him towards the end.

JR

That's a good point about the fuel! He wen't down on a lap 2! Being that I've never ridden a bike, I can only imagine how a full tank would be an important consideration in a bike's overall handling dynamics...especially the way in which these things are thrown around with the extreme lean angles!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

There are several compounds available from which the riders may choose BUT factory bikes get 1 range while the open bikes get a different range. Typically the open bikes have access to a softer compound.

It's complicated, but basically Bridgestone will bring either two, or three (at some tracks) choices for the front tires. All teams have the same choices for the front tires. The teams get either 9 or 10 fronts per weekend (depending on whether there are two or three selections) and can choose a maximum of 6 tires of any kind.

For the rears, there are three choices given to the teams at each race, out of roughly five choices that are available. Bridgestone decides which three of the five to bring to a race. They can be thought of as extra hard, hard, medium, soft and extra soft. The factory bikes get two choices and the option bikes get two choices. They differ in that the option bikes will get the same tire as the softest of the two offered to the factory bikes, plus a softer one. So, if the factory bikes are offered a hard and medium at a given race, the open bikes will get the medium and soft. They get 11 rear tires per event, 7 of the softer choice and 5 of the other.

Then, they have intermediates and full wets available, if it rains.

At some tracks, Bridgestone will make special tires, that have a softer compound on one side or the other. That is because certain tracks work one side of the tire harder than the other and the under-worked side tends to cool off too much during parts of the lap to be safe. The 'waterfall" corner at the Sachsenring is one such problem, in that it is a downhill, off-camber right hand turn taken at half throttle and fairly high speed, after a series of left hand turns. Lots of crashes there...

Then you have tracks like Laguna Seca, that are cool in the morning and hot in the afternoon. In years past, there have been races where the tires brought for the weekend simply wouldn't work in the first practice each day, which is generally held around 9:00. Back when there were still two tire companies in MotoGP, Michelin brought a selection that simply weren't safe. They also screwed up at Indianapolis about 10 years ago in F1, and wouldn't let the teams compete in the race with their tires.

Next year, MotoGP will be supplied by Michelin, instead of Bridgestone. They've been developing their tires for a while now and have contracted with Colin Edwards to test them. There have been a few group tests where other riders have tested them and thus far, the results have been less than 100% positive. They are different from the Bridgestones and have been tricky, especially the fronts. More than a few crashes. There will be a significant impact on the design of the 2016 bikes to suit the new tires. Next year could be fairly unpredictable.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by sand_man

That's a good point about the fuel! He wen't down on a lap 2! Being that I've never ridden a bike, I can only imagine how a full tank would be an important consideration in a bike's overall handling dynamics...especially the way in which these things are thrown around with the extreme lean angles!

Minimum weight on a MotoGP bike is around 348 pounds. A factory bike carries around 31 pounds of fuel and an open bike can have around 37. The difference between a full tank and a near-empty one is significant. It is easily felt, even on a heavier street bike. It used to be a bigger deal than it is now, in that the fuel was carried higher and further forward. Now, what looks like a fuel tank is mainly a cover over the airbox, and the fuel is located to the rear portion of that and under the front of the seat area.

JR

[javadog]

Interesting article on fuel, with some pics of the tanks:

Managing the MotoGP Fuel Limit by Keeping the Fuel Cool | Cycle World: How the top teams are managing the MotoGP fuel limit.

[javadog]

Here's a good read on Aragon:

Sunday Summary at Aragon: Of Deceptive Speed, Unforced Errors, & A Championship Reopened

MotoMatters.com is a site worth visiting often.

JR

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by javadog

Interesting article on fuel, with some pics of the tanks:

Managing the MotoGP Fuel Limit by Keeping the Fuel Cool | Cycle World: How the top teams are managing the MotoGP fuel limit.

Thank you for that, JR!!! Very informative, especially for a visual person, like myself.

[javadog]

Next year is going to be interesting. Granted, none of the current bikes have been designed for the Michelin rubber and there's only so much you can change in a one day test, but I don't think Michelin has a good handle on what they need to bring to each track next year and there have been a lot of riders tossing their bikes down the road in testing. The front seems to be so different than the Bridgestone front, and I've heard more than a few comments that it is somewhat unpredictable. I predict there will be a lot of *****ing about the tires nest year.

I think it's great that Lorenzo won the race last weekend, since he helped design the trophy and now he gets to take it home.

JR

[sand_man]

Some insight as to why Bridgestone is leaving MotoGP. Sorry if I'm a little late to the game.

MTD exclusive: An interview with Hiroshi Yamada, Manager, Bridgestone Global Motorsport Department - News - Modern Tire Dealer

Part 2: An interview with Hiroshi Yamada, Manager, Bridgestone Global Motorsport Department - News - Modern Tire Dealer

[sand_man]

Just finished with the Aragon Moto3 race!!!! WOW! That was great! Could not believe all the position changes!!! THAT LAST LAP!!!!!

[MikeD930]

The lightweights are usually really close! I thought the 250cc 4 strokes would be less exciting to watch than the previous 125cc 2 strokes. I guess not! As for MotoGP I'm rooting for Rossi since he's an "old" man in this sport.

As for the fuel tanks on the big bikes I remember Honda tried fuel tank below the engine on the 500cc 2 stroke GP bikes which Freddie Spencer test rode (maybe raced). He said it made handling much worst in spite of low C.G. of fuel. So Honda ditched that idea.

I love watching slow-motion videos of GP riders powering out of turns laying down rubber while still leaning. Talk about precision and bravery.

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by MikeD94

I love watching slow-motion videos of GP riders powering out of turns laying down rubber while still leaning. Talk about precision and bravery.

I agree. The slo-mo reveals so much of what is really happening with the tires through the corners. Especially on the approach, as they're braking and down-shifting, many dragging a foot on the track, it looks like the rear tire is sliding!

Also, the sound of the Moto2 bikes remind me of the bygone era that once was screaming F1 engines!!!

[javadog]

Ahh, the 1984 NSR500... They actually raced that bike; it wasn't great but Freddie won a few races with it. George V. the mechanic, did not like to do a plug check on that bike...

JR

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by peteremsley

Last lap of Moto2 was pretty fantastic as well!

Agreed. Great battle for the win. Strange that Zarko (spelling?) seemed to be off the pace.

[javadog]

That makes at least 4 riders with injuries. Nicky has a busted finger, Crazy Joe has been riding with a dislocated shoulder, Karel Abraham can barely walk. Even Rossi is a little banged up after the Michelin test.

I'd like to have a buck for every pain-killing injection the Clinica Mobile has given out over the years.

JR