Time for a new fridge

[wswartzwel]

I agree with you regarding bells and whistles that are going to fail… I but bought her what she wanted…That one is separate, just made to fit on top, and in what is normally unused and unseen space.

[rammstein]

Sears outlet. Go in person to see where the dent or scratch is. I got a $2800 fridge for like 1300 because it had a dent. On the back. Which I'll never see again.

[creaturecat]

Buy a Bosch. Why mess around? You can afford it.
The smaller Bosch units are not overly expensive.

[berettafan]

are the bosch products demonstrably more reliable or is it like cars...nicer to use....when they work?

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

We like the French door for a couple reasons. One with the fridge on top it keeps the dog and little kids out when it's open. With the fridge on top you don't have to bend down to get stuff out of the bottom. We use the fridge much more than the freezer drawer. Hot air rises so logically (and maybe I'm wrong b/c I'm not an engineer) the bottom freezer top fridge should be more efficient.

The reason the freezer used to be on the top is that the cool air from the freezer can be dropped into the fridge below easily, as that's where it wants to go. Freezer in the bottom, now you need to blow it up or have a separate cooling assembly in the fridge.

I am sure back in the day, people didn't like to bend over for the freezer either.

G

[motion]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

Buy a Bosch. Why mess around? You can afford it.
The smaller Bosch units are not overly expensive.

I had a spendy Bosch dishwasher a while back. The pump went out, and they wanted something like $600 to replace it. No more Bosch for me.

[motion]

Originally Posted by aigel

The reason the freezer used to be on the top is that the cool air from the freezer can be dropped into the fridge below easily, as that's where it wants to go. Freezer in the bottom, now you need to blow it up or have a separate cooling assembly in the fridge.

I am sure back in the day, people didn't like to bend over for the freezer either.

G

My main issue with the bottom freezer is that the top fridge is now 2 doors. I don't think I like that... how do you know which door to open, left or right?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Grimm

A better way to think about it is that fridges won't be 'talking to the Internet'. Rather, they'll be connected to the Internet similarly to how home security and and thermostats are already connected. The fridge will simply be accessible via an application that a homeowner, customer service, or field service department uses.

The best example I can give is when a home owner calls a service department to report something like a fridge that isn't properly cooling. The customer service department will be able to remotely access the unit and will be able to see what is causing the problem. The customer service department will tell the field service department exactly what parts to take when they make the house call. Currently nearly every manufacturer/field service team struggles with this, resulting in several trips to the home.

This technology already exists and is being deployed by several of the high-end producers. There are many other examples but that is one of the most straightforward.

Wonderful!!! But I'll ask you again - why not make an appliance that is reliable?

The answer that you aren't willing to state is, of course, that repair is a major revenue stream. In many industries the parts/repair aspect of the business is actually more profitable than the OEM side. This feature doesn't help the consumer, it makes the repair process easier and reduces comebacks for the repairman. So you are essentially trying to shove a BS marketing message down the throats of some fairly intelligent people. Not a very good approach here.

So to restate my case (and the case of many on here) - I won't give you another dime for these features. In fact, I will actively avoid them because they add complexity and represent another feature to break. If I happen to have this functionality in my next appliance (like my washer and dryer do) I will not bother to connect them, because it is worthless to me and I don't want to give my appliance the ability to gather my data.

I wish every manufacturer of consumer goods would take a page from Apple. Simple, intuitive design, quality construction, attractive industrial design. Quality still sells, though gimmicks are easy.

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Wonderful!!! But I'll ask you again - why not make an appliance that is reliable?

The answer that you aren't willing to state is, of course, that repair is a major revenue stream. In many industries the parts/repair aspect of the business is actually more profitable than the OEM side. This feature doesn't help the consumer, it makes the repair process easier and reduces comebacks for the repairman. So you are essentially trying to shove a BS marketing message down the throats of some fairly intelligent people. Not a very good approach here.

So to restate my case (and the case of many on here) - I won't give you another dime for these features. In fact, I will actively avoid them because they add complexity and represent another feature to break. If I happen to have this functionality in my next appliance (like my washer and dryer do) I will not bother to connect them, because it is worthless to me and I don't want to give my appliance the ability to gather my data.

I wish every manufacturer of consumer goods would take a page from Apple. Simple, intuitive design, quality construction, attractive industrial design. Quality still sells, though gimmicks are easy.

hah, this cracks me up. I can just picture you back at the turn of the century . . "Gosh durn, those horseless carriages . . screw 'em. Ford and those other bastards are just trying to take my hard earned money."

Despite the fact you don't get it, in a few years you'll look back and realize you were in a minority.

Over 60% of the people that buy high end appliances also have a vacation home that are equip with similar appliances. As an example, in those homes having the ability for their fridge to send an alert when the freezer is about to fail and spoil hundreds of dollars of food would be immensely helpful, as well as having a dish washer that can send an alert when it develops a leak and poses the danger of destroying a homeowner's floor.

And to correct your misunderstanding, very few high end appliance manufactures own the service companies that service their appliances. There is a very large industry of independent companies that do that. The manufacturers have to cover the warranty work so instead of it being a revenue source, it represents the single biggest cost item to a manufacturer. Effectively using technology to reduce service calls benefits both the manufacturer as well as the appliance owner.

And lastly, I find it amusing that you think appliances should be so bulletproof that they should be immune from failure. I think it's impossible to come up with even a single example of a product that doesn't face that risk. Even iphones break from time to time. Just pop into a Genius Bar to see how many fail.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

... I'll ask you again - why not make an appliance that is reliable?

Originally Posted by Grimm

I find it amusing that you think appliances should be so bulletproof that they should be immune from failure. I think it's impossible to come up with even a single example of a product that doesn't face that risk.

I don't believe anyone said 'immune from failure'. I would settle for 'as reliable as they were 20 years ago'.

The reality is appliances have more features and less reliability.

[MikeSid]

There are plenty of refrigerators that are worth the money to repair rather than replace. These same manufactures also produce a product that is as reliable as anything built 20 years ago. The problem? Most people want the reliability from 20 years ago at the price point from 20 years ago.
People would rather spend $1000 on a fridge and have it last them several years than spend $7000-10,000 and have it last them 30 years.

Subzero
Leibherr
True

These are not feature-laden units...unless you consider 2 compressors a "feature".
You get what you pay for.

[mreid]

Samsung all the way! Bought one new five years ago and it has been perfect.

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Mt parents bought a refrigerator in about 1960 when we lived in Hawaii. It moved with us as a military family over a dozen times. They finally cave it away to a friend for helping them install a new fridge to match the remodeled kitchen. It likely is still working but using twice the electricity of a modern fridge.

I sold my parents washing machine at the estate sale that I bet was 30 years old.

So yea, the old phrase "they don't make em like they used to" is 100% accurate..

So the above sentence illustrates the conundrum appliance manufactures have. How do you increase sales and lowers costs? The easiest way to do it is reduce costs and thereby reducing reliability so you can sell more items.

Grimm would never admit it, but I wonder how many discussions engineering had with management to increase the reliability of a product at a small cost to manufacturing but was vetoed down because profit considerations took a back seat to making a better LONGER lasting product (read less sales). I'll take off my tinfoil hat now.

[1990C4S]

Lots of negative Subzero reviews out there.

This 695 Sub-Zero has been the worst & most expensive refrigerator that i have ever owned. Since it was purchased the compressor, condenser, and several other parts
have had to be replaced.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Grimm

hah, this cracks me up. I can just picture you back at the turn of the century . . "Gosh durn, those horseless carriages . . screw 'em. Ford and those other bastards are just trying to take my hard earned money."

Despite the fact you don't get it, in a few years you'll look back and realize you were in a minority.

Over 60% of the people that buy high end appliances also have a vacation home that are equip with similar appliances. As an example, in those homes having the ability for their fridge to send an alert when the freezer is about to fail and spoil hundreds of dollars of food would be immensely helpful, as well as having a dish washer that can send an alert when it develops a leak and poses the danger of destroying a homeowner's floor.

And to correct your misunderstanding, very few high end appliance manufactures own the service companies that service their appliances. There is a very large industry of independent companies that do that. The manufacturers have to cover the warranty work so instead of it being a revenue source, it represents the single biggest cost item to a manufacturer. Effectively using technology to reduce service calls benefits both the manufacturer as well as the appliance owner.

And lastly, I find it amusing that you think appliances should be so bulletproof that they should be immune from failure. I think it's impossible to come up with even a single example of a product that doesn't face that risk. Even iphones break from time to time. Just pop into a Genius Bar to see how many fail.

So appliance manufactures don't make money from out of warranty repairs? Appliance parts don't get marked up? Designed obsolescence doesn't exist? Because most don't break within the meager 6-12 mo warranty period. When the ice maker agitator motor broke on my 2-ish year old Kenmore, the cost for overall assembly from Sears was about $250. I took apart the assembly, found a part number on just the motor, found the generic motor on the internet, and fixed it myself for about $60. So that part wasn't being marked up from Sears? The total assembly, by the way, was the motor and agitator arm. I installed the arm on the motor and saved about $200.

I'm not expecting an appliance that never fails. But I am expecting one that lasts a reasonable amount of time, commensurate with the timeframe that appliances were able to last 30 years ago.

As for your "innovative" ideas, do you really believe that you can detect every way in which your dishwasher will leak? Or add these various monitoring systems without impacting reliability? The only thing worse than a leaking dishwasher is one that is supposed to detect the leak, but doesn't. Or a freezer that will detect a failure detecting a failure when there isn't one. Your industry cannot design a reliable ice maker for God's sake. You are adding systems on top of your unreliable systems, why not fix the unreliable system that are at the root of the problem?

[aigel]

Originally Posted by motion

My main issue with the bottom freezer is that the top fridge is now 2 doors. I don't think I like that... how do you know which door to open, left or right?

Either one. The mechanism is equal opportunity. There are also single door fridges with the freezer in the bottom if you like. Not many choices there though.

Someone said Samsung was awesome. I disagree. I had one that did not fare so well. Sprung a leak about 5 years old. Also had to replace the ice maker. I like wrenching on cars, but appliances should be maintenance free and I expect 10 years + lifetime.

G

[MBAtarga]

Samsung = LG, and both are NOT recommended by the appliance parts guy that has been in the business for 25 years. I just talked to him today about this and he steers everyone away from either.

[Dan J]

Sub Zero's are built by well compensated Americans. Just sayin
The others? Who knows

[berettafan]

What does he like?

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Lots of negative Subzero reviews out there.

ha ha, that's exactly my point (I made earlier) about on-line reviews. You're referring to a Sub-Zero 695. I think that was discontinued over 8 years ago, and could have been made as long at 15 or more years ago. So here you have someone *****in about it all these years later, and readers like you are probably thinking this is about a current product.