Nope not you.
I am talking about the crowd that never got on a bike at all till the got in their 40s.
It is their dream come true and my night mare
Nothing wrong with that..
But for gods sake, dont plug up the highway.
They need to look in the rear view and see something and move OVER if they want to be potato heads .
Do a poker run
leaf peepers
etc

lots of Europeans and foreigners in general I know like HD

OK
well as we dribble forward...
at this point would you buy stock in HD ?
I do not see how they can sell much
The economy is upside dwn
A used harley is a much better idea...
JMO

HD seems to make a bulk of the $$ marketing clothing. You cannot seem to ride a Harley without HD logos in every garment in your riding wardrobe.


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

I am all sans !
LOL

i have already posted this in the cafe thread. Buddy's "Harley".
188 mph. at Bonneville. running on 1 cylinder. :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1453749890.jpg

Roger's board tracker:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1453750299.jpg

The Yellow bike -
That is all most rocket science - maybe it is.
I am going to guess he dropped a cylinder for a class rating ?

I would guess he poofed a cylinder on the run or he would have been faster.

i'm one of the few people who's ever successfully forced a harley dealership to give him his money back. so i guess that qualifies me as an expert.

they produce bikes that by every measure inferior to their japanese, european and now american competitors. wake the hell up. patriotism ≠ brand loyalty.

What was your gripe / complaint?
Flywheels?

****** harley tech forgot to put a bolt back in while replacing a head gasket. 70mph on the 10 freeway the bike vomited oil all over the rear wheel. i almost died.


the thing was a heartbeat away from being lemon lawed before that anyway. i have a ural now that has given me less crap.

Thanks Jeff..........

My observation from attending Laconia every year for the last 15 tells me the brand still lives on and the customers are getting younger as fast as i am getting older.

I have a special bond with my 95th anniversary special and if I am the last one to ever ride a Harley, well that is just fine with me.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1453769143.jpg

even better.
there is only one cylinder. the rear cylinder is mounted backwards on the front.

164 mph. i stand corrected.

Why doesn't H-D try to dip their toes back in the scooter market? They did it once before in 1960..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1453772421.jpg

with the right industrial design they could be the "Bad Boys" of the scooter world while most others are going for the retro cutsie look

WSJ today in Business and Tech has a large article on HD with some statistical research---stock is down 38% and dealers nationwide are fairly vocal about their concerns. Demographics is destiny for any company that doesn't get in front or at least keep up with the market.

TG
Littleton, Co
1981 Bmw R100 Frankenbeamer "s"
2009 BMW F800
1986 930. Sold

H-D's are just fine if you keep them below 1000 RPM. Start revving them up to redline and watch what happens. It ain't pretty. What's this? A motorcycle company that has been making bikes for umpteen years still can't make an engine that will last 5 minutes at WOT? Yep. Pretty sad.

I think HD keeps missing its mark and hitting old technoligy.
They could have the best of all worlds with an adjustable crank pin and a blower ( turbo or supercharged.)
It would be old school sound and come up through the RPM with shorter and shorter stroke.
Variable cam timing too of course.
Then they would have the ultimate engine .
The best of everything .
It would be a hoot and a screem.
Maybe they should cal me and I will tell them how its done..

I'd nearly forgotten - I have owned a HD. It was a 350 Sprint. Had it back in High School. Cool bike. Great slideways machine. Wish I still had it. Honestly can't remember what I did with it / sold it to.

Interesting reading here, let me add some perspective. I live in the Milwaukee area and consult with Harley on a regular basis for IT projects. Depending on the project sometimes I get to talk to the upper brass and pick their brains a bit. Let me start by saying they have a lot of really smart people there working hard to preserve the Harley image and move the brand to a younger consumer.

One of their biggest challenges in the last 50 years has been the buying cycles of consumers. It goes in 5-7 year expansion and contraction patterns closely following the economy. So during the expansion you need to produce more bikes, but then scale back during contraction. Historically that meant buying capacity, hiring people and changing supplier contracts on the up and laying off, selling off and scaling back during the down. Now they have redone their plants to be more scalar and have single lines to produce all bikes.....more or less. Now during the up they just add capacity to an existing line and during the down just limit how much that one line does. The only variable is how much labor they employ. It's a work in progress, but think about this. Every single Harley produced is unique, no 2 are alike. Just wrap your head around what that means from a manufacturing perspective. All bikes are special ordered by the dealers and have almost infinite amounts of customer options. I am amazed they can handle this.

So changing direction and focusing on younger buyers is one of their main goals. However this has to be done evolutionary, not revolutionary. They learned this with the Buel line. One cool thing about big data and analytics is the ability to really study data. When Harley broke down the manufacturing costs, development and cost of sales they never made a dime on Buel. The entire time they were owned by HD they lost money on them. So it had to go. What they learned though is there is a market there and they needed to move into it, but needed a better product that was more desireable. I am not privileged to any NDA information and if I was I certainly couldn't share it here. However I have been told there are new products comings, new technologies going to be integrated into current products and Harley will be changing over time.

Not sure this information really says anything other than Harley is headed in the right direction and it is my belief they will be fine. However all big companies are slow to change and this one really has a challenge to balance keeping an old aging consumer happy with attracting young new buyers.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=wall%20street%20article%20on%20harley

Hope this opens---just a Google list of recent articles on HD from WSJ. For some reason they take quite an interest in the trajectory of the company. I still find it interesting after a decade long career in the marketing department with Suzuki in the 1980's as HD was the target of all of the Japanese due to the fact that they owned the heavy CC market share. Their drop of 3-4% in current share in dollars is probably a huge number and I'm sure there are very late nights in Milwaukee trying to figure out how to get it back.

TG
Littleton, Co
1981 BMW R100
2009 BMW F800
1986 930. Sold.

HD will always be around, they might just have to learn to exist with a smaller share of the market.

There is still a lot of development that can be done within the existing product line to stay with the competition. IE: Less weight, more power with less vibration primarily. People can laugh at Harley's engines but the same things were said about the small block chevy some years back.

I distinctly remember GM being grilled about still using 'old and outdated' technology using push-rod engines when every one else at the time went to multi-valve, over head cam, small displacement engines. The reply was - "There is so much more engineering still to refine with a proven design, we lots left to accomplish" .........................they were right.

So look at the current generation of GM's LS-3 engines, vs say BMW's V-8...........................simplicity, lighter weight, fuel efficient, almost bullet proof in stock form. The existing Twin Cam engine platform that Harley uses is very robust and can take a lot of added HP / TQ with stock components. The biggest issue is they need to get away from a 'under square' displacement and go to modern 'over square' design, utilize oval ports in their cylinder heads, better combustion chamber and yes, simple variable cam timing.

I also take issue with some of the above posts on build quality vs the competition. If you look very close at fit and finish, things not readily first seen, my opinion is the fit and finish are as good, if not better than any other cruiser.

I had a race shop tell me that the stock XR1200 heads I had sent him were so porous, they were passing oil. I had to order 2 more sets to find a suitable pair for him to work with.

Statistic:

8 out of 10 of the HD's made in the last 25 years are still on the road.

The other 2 made it back home. :)

Why Germany’s Top Car Brands Love Motorcycles
From 4 to 2 And Back Again: Car Manufacturers and Motorcycles

Man, the hate for HD just shines through with this group. I get it, but I don't subscribe to most of the opinions.

I do agree that the overt marketing and branding of everything under the sun had long ago become annoying, but they are certainly not the only ones who use their logo in licensing to make money.

I also agree that the dealerships are BS. I haven't been in one in many, many years, and don't care if I never see the inside of one again. They don't care about actual riders, and it is evident in their service in the front and back of these places. I've tried over and over again to find one with a decent staff, but overall I guess they just don't exist anymore. Sure--there are employees who truly care in every one, but something about HD's corporate business model must train the good will out of them, as to me it feels like your in a ComCast showroom rather than a motorcycle store.

I've had over a dozen Big Twin bikes in the last 30 years, as many as 3 at one time, and although I only have one remaining (a 1996 FLSTN that I bought new and now has about 90,000 miles on it) I have always had great results with virtually every one of them. Each served a specific purpose, and they did it well. I am not into canyon carving, or I would have bought a sport bike.

My scooters have been all over the country--and the biggest breakdown I ever had was a broken drive belt--and that happened because I was off road driving to a cabin in the woods on a road where that bike didn't belong in the first place.

My Nostalgia is in the garage right now, on the trickle charger, waiting to be fired up and ridden. No puddles underneath, no parts missing.

To each his own, guys. I appreciate the passion you all have for specific makes/models, etc., but truthfully, it's about being on two wheels.

Porsche owners especially should understand this--there are just as many jokes about their owners as well, right?

I'm certainly not a 1%er, but I'm also not a poser or a RUB.

That's my two cents. Flame on.

^^^^^excellent post, right on target^^^^^^^^^^^

Excellent post Kevin, but there's no point arguing against ignorance...

The future of HD?

http://smartscooters.co.uk/image/cac...45-500x500.jpg

They already have a LOT of those ! ^^
Just a little bigger . LOL

I didn't start this thread to flame HD bikes or their riders. In fact I stated at one point that I will pick up an HD. I think Road Kings are great looking bikes, the Sporty 48 as well.

I started this because it looks like the HD company is on their way to a serious "correction" at some point. The demographics going forward do not look good for them. Give the disdain that some of you long time hog drivers have expressed for HDs business tactics and their dealerships, I think we're on the same page.

Oh, and let's be honest. That 'The Street' model they offer is just awful.

I agree with most of Todd's comments. I've owned several as well and have a 10 year old RK in the garage now. And it has a carb! Try to find that on a Japanese or German bike! But my distaste for the dealership experience goes beyond moderate. I just don't get it and never will.

But I like the bike for what it is. A big, fat, slow, comfy bike for a relaxing ride. But is that enough to grow the company? I'm in my mid-50's, so my tastes won't mirror younger riders. I also have a sport bike in the stable for carving and just plain adrenalin. I beleive HD needs to diversify and not worry so much about pissing off the ape hanger, skull, fringe crowd. That's not their future. It is their past.

re: the dealerships: i rode down to Trev Deeley in Vancouver. on my big dual sport. wearing the non-hog-style dual sport gear, to buy some carnauba for the 964. i have never received better treatment from a dealer. anywhere.
the glorious non-denominational museum was icing on the cake.