The future of Harley Davidson. Explain.
 

I don't understand HD's current business model.

The number of used HD bikes on the market is through the roof and growing as baby boomers retire from biking. There is very little that differentiates a new HD from a 10 year old model. They killed off Buell, thus killing off the only toehold they had in the sports bike market. Their entire ethos still centers squarely on an absurdly dated machismo vision of America that has little appeal to millenials. And their one entry level bike, The Street:rolleyes: is an abortion on wheels. I think they've done a good job of keeping the Sporty line fresh, but again, you can find oceans of used ones for 40% less than a new bike.

Lets see, for around $8000 I can get a hip Italian Ducati scrambler.....
http://bestride.com/blog/wp-content/...MBLER-ICON.jpg

Or I can get....well, whatever this is supposed to be....
http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/pho...treet-2014.jpg

" Their entire ethos still centers squarely on an absurdly dated machismo vision of America that has little appeal to millenials." Bingo.
Let's see if they can right the ship (again) before they circle the drain (again). Just look at an annual gathering of HD people and you'll see a bunch of grey haired die hard hog people in dwindling numbers. That's their niche and heritage.
I bought HD stock back in '98 or so when they were "reborn" i.e. employee purchased from AMF. Fully half their revenue was from trademarked merch (leathers, boots, etc). I'm guessing that will go away along with the old guard too.
The other bike companies have much deeper roots in the sport bike world. BTW, that Ducati is dead sexy.
-C

You'd think their market would be growing older and withering away (like Buick customers), but one of my coworkers just bought a Harley and he's 40. I'm not sure what millennials think of them..?

It could be worse. You could own one of their huge stores trying to sell over-priced bikes, clothing and accessories.

I see them as a vanishing supplier, with a market limited to people who want a brand new bike, everyone else will buy a used Harley, or a better bike made by a competitor.

I'd ride it but only if it was the last bike on the planet. Yuk!!!
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Someone's buying them...huge new HD dealership here in Scottsdale:
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GoDaddy founder plans largest Harley dealership
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It looks like they did a retro 77/78 XLCR, I had one and liked it. It looked good and sounded good, didn't go fast and didn't handle so I didn't have to race it.

The HD dealership in Westminster moved a couple of years ago. It's over by the main post office now in an industrial park. I went in just to see what it was like. Totally bowled me over with all the glitz and glamore. The place is huge inside with neon signs and LOTS of shiny new motorcycles all lined up. Their old store was in a former restaurant building so this was/is definitely a step up. Their shop is in the building across the parking lot and is huge too.

My buddy owns one of the largest dealerships in the country, and he's not too worried.

I agree that is one ugly bike.

I have a friend who has that bike, or maybe that's a lower model because his looks a lot fatter. In person it not that bad looking.

I've also never been impressed by HD bikes.
Although I do love smoking them at the lights in my '67 bug. :D

Sure seems like their demographic is slowly aging their way out of motorcycles, but I could be wrong. I'm 35 and the only Harley riders I know are significantly older. Most of the younger guys I know that ride are into Ducati, BMW, or the Japanese stuff.

I don't think Harley is in trouble (yet), but I just don't see who is going to be buying their new bikes 5-10 years down the road. I will probably get a Road King at some point just to check HD off my bucket list, but like hell I'm paying $19k :eek: for a new one when I can get a clean low miles used one for $10k.

I've never been a fan of HD - mainly for the poser stereotype that is so strongly represented here in SoCal. That said I know a Korean doctor in Orange County CA that actually rides his HD to Sturgis - respect. I had some time to kill a couple years ago and visited local HD dealer and echo all that Scott wrote above. I sat on the Fat Bob and have to say the quality and materials appear top notch. Have not ridden a HD but doubt I would like all the bulk.

I am looking at bikes again and have to say that the R9T looks mighty tempting. Used copies are hard to come by and they are pricey.

http://www.ninetowners.com/forum/att...00-image_7.jpg

I agree with the why buy new sentiment. I bought my first HD two years ago after lifetime of sport bikes (see my user name). Bought a 2 year old CVO for $10k less than the original purchaser and get this, only 1,200 miles on it. So much for resale value. It's a dinosaur but it's good at what it does.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1453663496.jpg

The only person I know who had a Harley is in mid 60s, and he got so fed up with all the ridiculous HOG wanna be BS that he got rid of it about 5 years ago and got a BMW. Lifetime HD owner, now on a Beemer.

Sorry but Harley-Davidson is the Keith Richards of motorcycle companies - everything about their behavior says they should be dead but they just keep going. And yeah, you'd think the audience for each had passed on, but people keep turning up for the shows.

I guess there will always be a fresh crop of orthodontists, accountants and doctors with money in their hands and a silly vision that an HD is somehow rebellious.

Never under-estimate the borrowing power of banks and middle-aged white guys with blinders.

I'm seeing more stuff like this on old HDs and 'Wings.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1453665520.jpg

That should keep their market until they move them into HD mobility scooters. :D

Best
Les

I like the looks of the R9T, but not the price. For $15K (in a new bike of that genre), I'd either go for the Scrambler (Duc) or Thruxton R, or expect a more fitting BMW level of technology (ABS, traction control, etc) from the R9T.

Heck, I'm cheap, so I'd probably just get a used Monster instead.

Good one.

What about the Mongols and Hells Angles - do they allow orthodontists to join?

I don't know much about HD, but judging from this, Willie G is still signing off on all the design work?



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1453668026.jpg

The same thing is happening to the hot rod and 60's muscle car markets. Look at the audience at the auction this weekend. 85% of the guys that are bidding are over 50.

There will be a lot of sons and grandsons selling old cars and HD's over the next 15 years.

A young couple recently re-located here from Redding CA did a bang up job on this HD. They were going for a scrambler / flat track / minimalist look. Why the factory can't explore this aesthetic is beyond me. Total retro-millenial- appeal:
1975 Harley XLCH1000 Ironhead Sportster III
There's a big retro- bike scene here, with a really cool show every year - coming up soon:
http://the1moto.com
Yes, there's a show with hand built custom bikes, beer, bbq & live music. And tattoos, let's not forget them...and coffee strong enough to melt your spoon... god I love this town...

As usual, lots of uninformed input from the outside looking in. Typical stereotypes promoted by those who would like to display their "knowledge" of the HD scene.

The fact of the matter is, the HD demographic is actually getting younger. That, and almost half of their new customers are women. Another large market segment is the new rider, who is just getting into the motorcycling thing. Why on earth would women and new riders be attracted to HD?

Simple - they are very un-intimidating, very easy, friendly bikes to ride. They make the kind of power that is very easy to control, and feels like a great deal of power to the uninitiated. They ride very low, so even smaller folks can firmly plant both feet on the ground. They share the same riding position (and probably handlebar tassels) as the very first bicycle they learned to ride.

So what about experienced riders? There is quite a population of experienced touring riders who will ride nothing else. They have "enough" power (just enough...) for easy all day two up loaded touring. They are very comfortable, with ergo advantages afforded by the extremely narrow engine that other makes cannot match. They are absolutely dead reliable these days and, if something does go wrong on the road, dealer support is second to none.

It is actually HD corporate policy that the touring rider who meets with trouble on the road has priority at the dealership for repairs. There are hundreds and hundreds of dealers dotting the country, so a rider is never more than a few hours away from one. Of course merely having a dealer handy means nothing if they don't stock the parts, or cannot get them fairly quickly.

I've played this little game we call "breakdown" with many of my touring buddies. Somewhere along the way, usually in the middle of B.F. Nowhere, one of us will declare a "breakdown". We'll pretend, say, an alternator or something crapped out. Then each of us gets to find a dealer who can fix it and get us on our way. As a Harley rider, I have never failed to find a place that could get me back on the road the next day, including sending someone out to pick me up if need be. The Honda riders find dealerships, but even on brand new bikes, they seldom have the part - but they can order it, and it will be here in a week... The BMW riders are lucky to find a dealer outside of the bigger urban centers, and then it's the same story - a week or two for parts and an appointment.

There is a dealer support network and "family" kind of thing one is buying into that just isn't there with other makes. Maybe in spirit, but not in a real world, keep you riding at all costs kind of vein. That means a lot to a lot of people.

Beyond all of that, at the end of the day, some (certainly not all) of their bikes are truly wonderful to ride. Not the fastest, not the best handling, but there is a huge population of riders who will never push those boundaries anyway. Harleys will still out perform them, and they really don't care.

So, even if you cannot understand why, don't be looking for HD to lose market share anytime soon. Your stereotypical middle aged, gray ponytailed, freshly tatted doctor or lawyer is no longer their core market. It has not been for years. I've seen the shift from within this demographic. The rest of you are just rehashing the same tired old cliches in some effort to demonstrate you "know" something.

Whoa, easy there tiger. That's what the internet is for. Spouting half baked, un-informed gibberish...

I see a lot of Harleys on the roads Saturdays and Sundays. On the positive side they aren't doing wheelies down the highway and are usually too fat to get between the cars at lights and stop signs.
On the down side the girls/womens butts are always better looking on the rice rockets. or is that a down side.

Seems like somebody hit a nerve. I'm not a bike guy and only observing my environment, so I'll never claim to be an expert. Around here the HD crowd is distinctly gray, the younguns are all on something else.......doing wheelies and stupid stuff like that. My neighbor bought a HD last year, apparently his wife is too "old" (his words) to ride on the back of his chopper so he needed something more comfortable. Just an aside, he is a doctor that trailers his bikes behind an Acura MDX for any significant distance, so there is some truth to stereotypes. He also has an Evora S and a Shelby Super Snake, so I give him a pass on the bike nonsense.:cool:

Well.One thing they are EZ to fix...
Going to Sturgis last year I took enough tools to bust it dwn to past the inner primary cover..
As it was, I needed nothing except a rear tire promptly when I returned. It was new but blowing pieces out of it .

No interest whatsoever in HDs. None. They're simply obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious - with a premium price tag to be paid for the "privilege" of it. The height of stupidity to me - right up there with the Hummer h2. Poseur central. If that rubs anyone the wrong way, so be it. To each their own - ain't my cup of tea.

On a positive note I'm currently shopping for a BMW k-series bike or r-series. I've got almost 100k miles on bikes and am <50 years old. The BMWs are simply amazing bikes and only getting moreso.

You guys do realize that millennials don't give a crap about sports cars either?

They pretty much prefer to use Uber and don't want the "responsibility" of a car, unless it drives itself so they can stay glued to their iPhone.

Sometimes I wish I didn't have to mess with cars to get around. If I lived and worked in the city and used transit or ride sharing to get around I think that'd be awesome. So they don't care to drive, so what?

Oh, and I don't the allure of HD either. That's a lotta script for a bike. I live in western Washington, so you only get about three months of nice weather to ride in around here. By nice, I mean not raining.

Yea........but you have the Cascade Hiway ! Right NEXT DOOR !
One of the BEST roads ever built ! (for sports cars and bikes)
I am not sure how much burned dwn this summer in Winthrop .But go visit for me !

These Sturgis comments from another Pelical thread were merciless:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/877142-tow-truck-operators-perfect-storm.html

I do enjoy that drive/ride!

And who the hell anointed you as the reigning authority on the HD scene?

Off topic-
My biggest pet peeve is on a personal level with HD riders..
The HD riders nowaday can not tell you where the tire inflate valve is.
Years ago, back in the day (early 1970s) when we massed together it was all nuts and bolts talk .
Most any of us could bust one dwn and get it back up.
We had to! As we barely could afford the Harly much less a repair by the shop .
So nowadays I truly miss talking shop to most anyone that pulls up.
The commonality is not there on that level....
It's "where I took it for repair"
Totally boring.

Mine is 10 years old and has a carb, no ABS, 5 speed. Rode it today because the high was 47 and it (Road King) offers good wind protection. Runs great but I detest going anywhere near any of those ubiquitous dealerships Jeff describes above. I have to say that I like the bike, but I love my BMW. In fact, I've owned several HD's and BMW's over the years. Much prefer the BMW's for so many reasons.

I'm no youngster, but BMW has typically attracted older riders also. But they continue to innovate with an eye on the future rather than the past. My new bike is an S1000R, 160 hp, quick-shifter, ABS, dynamic suspension and the list goes on. An absolute blast to ride with comfort and styling that's light years ahead of HD.

In fact, I'd sell my RK in a heartbeat and plan to do so come spring. No time to ride two bikes and the S scratches the itch in a big way. HD needs to find a way to attract riders who detest the fat, tattoo, fake earring crowd. Unfortunately, they seem to be stuck there. I thought there was a chance when they acquired MV Agusta, but that sank like a rock. Have to disagree with Jeff. I believe the future is bleak if things don't change.

I will !
Or at least he very articulate and very informed.
But you do not know Jeff.
You are not informed or you would not pose the question if you did.
Why so much animosity on here?
Is this becoming like a kids forum ?
Why all the presumptuousness ?

That is incredibly regional. Cars are still a huge deal in the Midwest because they are the only option. Not all places are Chicago or NYC.

Know why HD riders wear fringe?


So they can tell they're moving;)