HVAC Guys, I need your help.

[ErrorMargin]

I have a R22 AC system in my house, about 22 years old. The evaporator developed a significant*leak.

I have two quotes to put in a new system and one quote two replace the evaporator*and recharge the existing system.

I'd appreciate and thoughts or questions I should ask of the vendors.

Here is a link to the quotes: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gnryk8u4WCynzCLmlY1r9r6nwuH1n-k5?usp=sharing

TIA

[rfuerst911sc]

Just my opinion but I wouldn't spend much $$$ on a 22 year old system .

[masraum]

I definitely think the way to go is to get the full system replaced. It costs ~double, but the new system should be much more efficient and therefore cheaper to run, so while it'll likely take a bit to offset the additional cost, it should eventually. I assume lower bills will be nice, and will make it feel like you accomplished something.

I wish I could get new HVAC (also a heat pump) for those prices. Everyone that I've spoken to around here makes it sound like it's going to be at least 50% more than what you were quoted.

[billybek]

With the cost and availability of R-22, it makes sense to consider a change now.

Keep in mind that many of the new refrigerants are considered to be A2L rated. A meaning non toxic, 2 meaning some flame propagation, L meaning Low (burning velocity or propagation).
Some of these systems will require some sort of refrigerant monitoring equipment and that may be factory installed or it may not.

I think that when Honeywell or Dupont lose a patent on a product, it automatically becomes a "bad" refrigerant.

I did look up the AC pro equipment listed and didn't see a manufacture type for the other quote. Make sure you know what you're getting and research the reliability of the product before accepting the quote.

A heat pump application may make sense too depending on your utility costs.

[Zeke]

Depending on the existing ducts you could consider using mini splits. It's not unusual to use up to five inside air handler units for one condenser. They can be different in size as well to accommodate the area that they serve. The nice thing is that the new inside units can fit in the ceiling, hang on the wall, or even come up from the floor on a raised house. I could do my 1300 sq ft house with 5 heads and be able to have 5 zones instead of one temp for the entire house. There are many days I'm cooling areas I'm hardly in for any length of time.

Costa Mesa is a really mild climate. Is your heating also supplied by the old unit? If you choose you can leave in place for heat as it might run cheaper than all electric.

[William930t]

I'm starting this upgrade research as well for our 16-yr old system, still working ok. What I am seeing is multiple issues with the specialized use of A2L R-454B & R-32 including equipment higher costs, leak sensors, high pressures & temps, wiring, specific coils, service & blending issues and technician training. I would suggest finding an installer that still uses R-410A if possible, likely an overstock item with reduced cost. Supposedly, packaged 410A units are still being produced until 2028.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by William930t

I'm starting this upgrade research as well for our 16-yr old system, still working ok. What I am seeing is multiple issues with the specialized use of A2L R-454B & R-32 including equipment higher costs, leak sensors, high pressures & temps, wiring, specific coils, service & blending issues and technician training. I would suggest finding an installer that still uses R-410A if possible, likely an overstock item with reduced cost. Supposedly, packaged 410A units are still being produced until 2028.

This is good advice.

I recently had our system inspected and had a lively conversation with the technician who has spent decades in HVAC. He was telling me about the AC lobby in DC that is involved with the constantly evolving types of refrigerants. Introducing a new refrigerant to a system involves lots of changes in components ($$$$) to keep it compatible and happy.

Planned obsolescence at it's finest.

[Zeke]

R410A had problems when it was new. It didn't mix well with the additive Copeland compressor specified and gummed up everyone's TVX valve. Everything new seems to have a beta stage even after it's available to the public.

It's same with cars, or sure was at one time.

I don't know about newer refrigerants.

A package unit is a whole 'nother subject. I like them if you have the house to use them on. Most are on the roof somewhere and that can be a problem visually.

[Dantilla]

If replacing the entire system, you do not want the highest efficiency rating.

With the newer stringent energy codes, the only way manufactures are complying is by using thinner metals for faster heat transfer, which is why new systems don't last as long as older systems.

If there is a choice between 80% efficiency and 90% efficiency, I'm picking 80%.

[craigster59]

The thing that surprised me moving here to Arizona from California was the AC filters.

I'm a maniac about changing filters, in SoCal I would change every other month with the high efficiency filters from HD with high allergen filtration.

I put those here in Arizona and no bueno. Too hard on the system. You go with the cheapo-creepo green mesh flimsy numbers, that's what everyone recommends. Less stress on the system and I change monthly.

[A930Rocket]

^^^ That’s what I use at my house and anytime I replace filters in houses under construction.

I replaced my 2.5T 12 year old system last year for $7000.

[David]

My R22 4-ton central AC is about 22 years old and I'm about to replace it.

I've got a quote of $11,000 for new Trane XR16 4-ton compressor, coil, gas heater, and all new R-8 flex ducting.

[Zeke]

I use the green mesh too. Excellent comment. I have saved hundreds. I use a small bit of car duster spray on it to aid in capturing dust. When I rinse it I never use soap. They do work.

If I did it all over again I'd have 2 air returns.

[ErrorMargin]

Thanks for all the great comments everyone, I'll keep you updated

[masraum]

Originally Posted by craigster59

The thing that surprised me moving here to Arizona from California was the AC filters.

I'm a maniac about changing filters, in SoCal I would change every other month with the high efficiency filters from HD with high allergen filtration.

I put those here in Arizona and no bueno. Too hard on the system. You go with the cheapo-creepo green mesh flimsy numbers, that's what everyone recommends. Less stress on the system and I change monthly.

I have discovered the same thing here. They sell those super filters, but all they are good at is causing problems for your AC because they are too restrictive of airflow. The important bit is the "MERV" rating. I believe it's ideal to keep the merv rating it 8 or below or better yet 5.

I've switched to these pleated paper filters. Another option if you've got the space is to switch to a 4" filter. Because they have a lot more surface area, I believe they have more flow through what would otherwise be a more restrictive filter.

[john70t]

California is going to have special rules.
Maybe check out the .gov website (and save every page in triplicate)

Furnace and A/C unit outside might need to match. IDK.
Automotive went from R-22...to R-34...to whatever it is now.
Different hoses and pumps and pressures required for each system.


I do like the idea of using cheap common non-flammable gases (seems to be only industrial for now):
https://coolsys.com/co2-refrigeration-systems/
CO2 refrigeration systems are a natural, low global warming potential (GWP), sustainable alternative to using synthetic refrigerants that help you comply with EPA’s HFC phase down while delivering maximum uptime and system performance.

RV and portable units appear to be common propane:
https://heatgear360.com/propane-air-conditioner/
The cooling landscape has evolved dramatically. Today’s portable air conditioners use eco-friendly refrigerants (including propane-based R-290) and deliver powerful performance without permanent installation.