Is daily driving your low mileage 911 cheaper than also owning a new commuter car?

[sugarwood]

Perhaps not to be taken literally, and some big assumptions,
but maybe this can lead to some discussion about cost of ownership, depreciation, etc.

The real take away is that saving your unicorn to preserve mileage might not be as profitable as it seems, once you factor in opportunity cost.

1985 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe | Bring a Trailer
1986 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe | Bring a Trailer
1985 Porsche 911 Coupe | Bring a Trailer

From here, I will extrapolate some ballpark market values.
50k mile car is worth $45k
100k mile car is worth $38k
150k mile car is worth $31k
200k mile car is worth $25k

So, if you add 100k miles to your $38k 911, it will now be worth $25k. That is a loss of $13k in value for 100k of driving. (We are ignoring maintenance costs, but the point is depreciation of a new car is very costly)

Next, I think we need to factor in the rate of mileage accumulation. ince depreciation is the largest cost of owning a car, if you did 100k miles over 13 years (vs. 4 years) it will be a lot cheaper to own than if you drove 100k miles in 3 years, and kept replacing the car. I think the hypothesis needs to be adjusted to qualify high mileage commutes.

Let's say you drive 25 miles to work. That's 12k miles a year. In 5 years, that's 60k miles. Say that would cost about $8k in depreciation on the 911 (ignoring maint) On a new car, that would cost you much more in depreciation. But, who says the commuter car has to be new?

An incorrect assumption is that the econocar ownership is turned over at 100k, and the 911 somehow goes 400k miles. Obviously, not true. Plus, engine rebuilds, etc would clearly shatter this model like a plastic BMW cooling fan. So, this was a loaded hypothesis, b/c you can just daily drive a $7k Camry all the same with similar zero depreciation. The only almost tautological conclusion is, "Older cars are cheaper to run than newer cars"

Price exponentially spikes when you get to low mileage unicorns (collector cars)
It also flattens out with high mileage road warriors.
(200k vs 250k vs 300k might have $5k difference total)
As you add more miles, the derivative approaches zero.
At some point, the incremental miles theoretically have no effect on the value of the car.
Total opposite effect of putting the same miles on a new commuter daily

[JackDidley]

I'd drive the 911. First, life is too short to drive boring cars. (Camry) Second, I dont care about depreciation. I drive my cars a long time. First Corvette, over 200,000 miles. Third Vette, over 150, 000. Most of my workhorse vehicles were used up when I was done with them also.

[Bill Douglas]

I bought the 911 for (kiwi dollars) $21,000, now it's worth $75,000 in 25 years. My second hand Corolla station wagons get bought for $6,000 and last about six years so that's a loss of $25,000 over that time. I do oil changes on all the cars every six months. I guess the oil cost a bit more for the 911 though and it uses a bit more fuel because I drive it harder. In the 25 years I've spent about $12,000 in repairs and paint. So the 911SC comes out well on top.

[jwasbury]

Would you daily drive a vintage 911 in the NYC metro area, say to NYC every day for work? Find a 911 that's been used in that manner with 100k+ miles and let us know how much it sells for vs. a pampered one.

[GH85Carrera]

I never bought my 911 as an investment. It was and still is my fun toy. I don't daily drive it because it is insured as a toy pleasure use only. I am "restricted" to 7,000 miles per year on the insurance policy but never done more than 5,500 in a year.

My 1986 El Camino is my daily driver. It is at 352,000+ miles now and still worth more than I paid for it. Every single system works as designed or much better. I recently had the fan blower motor get so old and tired it was pulling more amps than it should. That burned up the fan switch and the function switch. The new fan motor was something I already had on the shelf. The new fan speed switch was $12 and the function switch that switches between AC modes and heat was $29 for AC Delco GM branded parts. It was a 20 minute repair.

The Elky has been paid for since 1992. It is not just another econo box, pickup, or endless SUV and it gets compliments all the time. People ask if it is for sale regularly and I tell them it is not for sale at any reasonable price. What would I replace it with?

Nothing and I do mean nothing else can replace it for cost to operate. The purchase price minus the resale value and minus all operational cost divided by mileage is a crazy low cost per mile over the last 26 years

[onewhippedpuppy]

This thread three years ago - the answer is hell yes. Everything air cooled 911 has appreciated since then. But buying at the top of the market and then driving the hell out of it will definitely yield a car that is worth far less money. You're better off buying something that is fully depreciated, like a 986 or 996. It's easy to find a nice 986 for $10k, which is pretty dirt cheap for ANY car. They are very solid and reliable cars, and an easy daily driver (mine is). So drive it for 100k, maintain it, enjoy getting about 30 MPG on the highway, then turn around and sell it for probably pretty close to $10k. Because even a salvage trashed 986 is worth $6k if drive-able, and I don't see that going any lower.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

This thread three years ago - the answer is hell yes. Everything air cooled 911 has appreciated since then. But buying at the top of the market and then driving the hell out of it will definitely yield a car that is worth far less money. You're better off buying something that is fully depreciated, like a 986 or 996. It's easy to find a nice 986 for $10k, which is pretty dirt cheap for ANY car. They are very solid and reliable cars, and an easy daily driver (mine is). So drive it for 100k, maintain it, enjoy getting about 30 MPG on the highway, then turn around and sell it for probably pretty close to $10k. Because even a salvage trashed 986 is worth $6k if drive-able, and I don't see that going any lower.

I'm dying to try and DD a 911. The 996 is just so ugly

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I never bought my 911 as an investment. It was and still is my fun toy. I don't daily drive it because it is insured as a toy pleasure use only. I am "restricted" to 7,000 miles per year on the insurance policy but never done more than 5,500 in a year.

My 1986 El Camino is my daily driver. It is at 352,000+ miles now and still worth more than I paid for it. Every single system works as designed or much better. I recently had the fan blower motor get so old and tired it was pulling more amps than it should. That burned up the fan switch and the function switch. The new fan motor was something I already had on the shelf. The new fan speed switch was $12 and the function switch that switches between AC modes and heat was $29 for AC Delco GM branded parts. It was a 20 minute repair.

The Elky has been paid for since 1992. It is not just another econo box, pickup, or endless SUV and it gets compliments all the time. People ask if it is for sale regularly and I tell them it is not for sale at any reasonable price. What would I replace it with?

Nothing and I do mean nothing else can replace it for cost to operate. The purchase price minus the resale value and minus all operational cost divided by mileage is a crazy low cost per mile over the last 26 years

Do you have a secure server and warehouse like Gene Hackman in Enemy of the State? His character's car was an '86 El Camino

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by JD159

I'm dying to try and DD a 911. The 996 is just so ugly

I did this a few years ago in Hawaii. I had a 993 and a '69 911. I alternated days depending on my mood and crapy traffic. Both had AC so not a huge deal.

On really bad days I would go over the mountains to the north side of Oahu and take the 50 mile shoreline route home. It took an hour and the 15 mile interstate route also took an hour. Sometimes I missed an automatic in stop and go traffic. But looking back now, I miss the 993, especially the loss of value over today's prices...

In the last few weeks I've been considering a 996 and getting rid of the Range Rover. I like the smaller vehicle to get around town. The RR is 2 tons and takes a lot of get up and go to get moving.

[onevoice]

AAA gives you the numbers

http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2016-YDC-Brochure.pdf

The hypothetical Camry is a medium sedan and they calculate about $.75/mile operating cost if you drive 10,000 miles per year and trade it in after 5 years. So yes, owning and driving is expensive if you do it in new cars. Doing it with a new Porsche is undoubtedly more expensive.

The alternative of buying an old Porsche, like the original examples might work. To keep it consistent, keep the same 5 year term, and about 10,000 miles per year. Buy the 50k mile carrera, in five years it would have about 100k miles. As long as you didn't have a major expense, and the depreciation zero stayed close to zero (certainly plausible), you would surely come out ahead.

Depreciation, depreciation, depreciation, is the car owning equivalent of the real estates location, location, location. Even an expensive car can be cheap if you pick it right. If you could have got one at sticker, a 918 could have been a daily driver for a couple of years for free. But pick the wrong one and you would get slaughtered.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by JD159

I'm dying to try and DD a 911. The 996 is just so ugly

My first Porsche was a rough around the edges 1970 911T, it was my daily driver for a year. It always made for a fun drive home, but no A/C and cruise control along with temperamental carbs got old after a while. Don't knock the 996 until you try it, they are a huge amount of fun with much of the 911 charm, but none of the sacrifices. Plus they are CHEAP.

[sand_man]

I drive my 993, daily. I've never done any math or calculations about how much I'm losing or gaining. I do my own maintenance and repairs. I mod the car, as I like. I never bought it as an investment. I just love the car and I love driving it. I don't sweat the miles. All of my Porsches have been "drivers". For a short while, I had another vehicle to use for daily utility purposes (commuter car), but even then, I almost always took the Porsche, leaving the other car un-driven, so I sold it (the commuter). I'm currently saving up to by a truck in the next couple of years, but that's just because our household has a need for one.

[sand_man]

My car is getting ready to turn 100K. The paint is all original. Yep...scratches, chips, road rash, maybe a ding or two, but I LOVE IT this way!!!! My plan is to keep on driving it and one day restore it.

[nfl72]

I look at it a slightly different way than most. I like driving older used cars that are in very nice condition. Its hard to keep them in that kind of condition when you drive them everyday.

My 89 911 coupe that I just sold was purchased 9 years ago for 20K and it had 23,000 miles on it. I sold it with 53000 miles on it for 57K. I kept it in very nice condition and mostly drove it when the weather was nice.

On days when I am working or when the weather is not as nice and in the winter I drive a 2006 LS430 with 120,000 miles. It is a very good looking car and is also a very nice driver. A car like that can be bought for around 10K. So the added depreciation on the 911 with the higher miles pays for the ls430.

[stomachmonkey]

For me it was when gas was creeping up on $5.00 pg.

My Tahoe gets better mileage than my 911.

My monthly savings was a car payment so I looked at the Mazda as essentially a free car.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

My first Porsche was a rough around the edges 1970 911T, it was my daily driver for a year. It always made for a fun drive home, but no A/C and cruise control along with temperamental carbs got old after a while. Don't knock the 996 until you try it, they are a huge amount of fun with much of the 911 charm, but none of the sacrifices. Plus they are CHEAP.

Looking at pictures, I don't mind the interior at all. Performance wise? Seems great. Probably drives fantastic.

Just something about the body styling! Maybe i'd have to do something to it to spice it up a bit. Got any cool pics of one?

Edit: I find the turbo's to be much more appealing.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

Do you have a secure server and warehouse like Gene Hackman in Enemy of the State? His character's car was an '86 El Camino

No secure server for me. At least one that I will mention on line.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by JD159

Looking at pictures, I don't mind the interior at all. Performance wise? Seems great. Probably drives fantastic.

Just something about the body styling! Maybe i'd have to do something to it to spice it up a bit. Got any cool pics of one?

Edit: I find the turbo's to be much more appealing.

Here are couple of mine:

The Aerokit really helps, and I loved the OZ wheels:




Aerokit side skirts and H&R springs made for a nice stance, along with MY02 wheels:




Wish I still had this one, rare sunroof delete:

[wdfifteen]

If you consider the cost of maintenance, cost of rental car when the 911 is down, cost of repairs, cab fare, etc. I think it would be cheaper to get a commuter appliance and keep the 911 for special occasions.

[Eric Hahl]

I put 32,000 miles on my 85 in one year. Yep, life is too short.