ADA irony

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

or a conclusion was jumped to by one that is apt to do so. I was not saying the blind could or should not own guns, just that the irony was worth noting. this is silicon valley California store, not texas where im sure the blind are encouraged to arm themselves.

It's irony if you think it's something contrary to what one might expect.

Who would expect the blind to have guns?

Not many.

It's counterintuitive.

Why is it counterintuitive?

Why can't the blind have guns?

That was my complete train of thought expressed originally by only the last question.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

So you agree that cost is just cause?

In general, no, not sure how you even got that impression so to be clear, in general, no.

There are costs to doing business with and being accessible to the public.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by widebody911

I'm somewhat on-board with the ADA in principle, but from what I've seen the retroactive requirements are a bit onerous in cases. However, the biggest flaw in the ADA is how it allows the shakedown of non-compliant businesses, which has become a cottage industry in and of itself. Set up a process for ADA violation remedy the same as a fire code or other building code issues, and not a lottery for lawyers with wheelchairs.

When our elevator goes out on one of our older buildings (analog elevator) we have to put a huge sign out front "this building is not ADA compliant"

RE: The blind, I have seen some pretty cool high tech (sonar) for the blind... IMHO they would be better served by instead of spending the money on the bumpy pads to equip them with aids like that.

I wonder how many sighted people trip and injure themselves on the bumpy pads?

[aigel]

So, any of you guys handicapped?

I have been handicapped. It changed my view of ADA in a big way. If we hadn't ADA, you'd be effed if you are handicapped. Just go to a developing country and have a look how it goes for the handicapped there.

The OP is not a good example of overdone ADA as already pointed out. Neither is the "Pilot Lounge" sign. There is a room and blind people should be able to identify it. Seeing people that aren't pilots also will benefit from knowing that that is the Pilot Lounge.

A bit more compassion would be good here. "Snicker snicker, look at the pilot lounge sign!" An important role of the government is to ensure the weaker of us aren't getting marginalized. Also, the fact that ADA implementation isn't always optimum isn't' a reason to dismiss the entire ADA.

G

[bivenator]

I am on the neighborhood HOA. We are looking to renovate the restrooms at the pool. If more than 30k is spent to renovate, then that triggers the ADA act which requires equal access. Lots and lots more money to bring the restrooms to code for handicap access. We could probably put a third restroom that is wheelchair accessible but that doesn't satisfy the requirement. We would have to completely tear down the building and rebuild from ground up to make it ADA compliant.
So we are stuck without wheelchair access for the pool restrooms.

[rusnak]

It just breaks my heart to see kids that young goin' bad.

[daepp]

Just the truncated dome (foot braille) is close to $800.

[juanbenae]

there is a blind lady that frequents a bar I visit from time to time & ive spoken with her extensively on ADA issues and she hates the dome tiles. her opinion is the best ramp design was the old style ones that had the deep scored chevron type grooving that pointing in the direction of cross walk travel. ones where only a single way to cross would have all angled grooving that lined up with the crosswalk direction of travel. she stated these were the best indicator of a travel way/direction in areas she was unfamiliar with.

ive also got her convinced im handsome....

[island_dude]

My Dad was blind and some of the wheelchair accommodations (sloping curbs) caused him some real challenges. He walked a mile or so to work when there wasn't any snow on the ground. He was unusually well adapted. It is easy to dismiss the value of these accommodations. The cost can be unreasonable, but it makes a huge difference. Before the ADA and anti-discrimination laws the handicapped didn't have any recourse from being excluded from things we take for granted. Dad showed up for his first day of college and they told him to go away. He somehow convinced then he wouldn't get in the way and they figured he would just give up and go away. It was pretty tough in then.

Oh, and having said all this, I agree with the OP on the curb outside the gun shop.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by FPB111

Around here the drive through bank auto teller windows have Braille instructions.??.

Read a whole long article about this not so long ago. If I find the link I'll edit this post.

In a nutshell it's cheaper to have one kind of ATM, despite how silly it seems here, than multiple types by location.

That actually made sense to me...

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Alan A

In a nutshell it's cheaper to have one kind of ATM, despite how silly it seems here, than multiple types by location.

I'm employed as a public works inspector so I seen a ton of ADA work in the public right of way over the years. as noted above the domes themselves are very, very expensive and additional max slope requirements require significantly more adjacent concrete to be replaced to make these grades possible. the agency I work for has very few corners not ramped in one form or another, but there are a few out there w/o. the silly thing is we get federal funding to not put ramps where their not on corners already, but specific funding to install ramps at 3-way intersections! some that the uncontrolled traffic with high post MPH limits and absence of a cross walk is simply nuts IMO. they also tend to consume residential parking spots make 3 into 1 depending on the alignment.

the only time we pull up an existing ramp & replace it with a current standard unit is when we do a major repave or street scape affair. I'm not anti ADA, ive just have witnessed the full spectrum of it's effects regarding cost impact & how common sense is rarely considered.

ive built more illegal ramps in the last 6 or 7 years because the exit slope was greater than 5%. there is no way to achieve a 5% exit slope while maintaining drainage & when the road cross slope is already at +5%. it's our dirty little secret, but reconstructing intersections to meet the 5% slope requirement would increase cost beyond what's reasonable.

do you think I'm handsome?

t

[Jeff Higgins]

My younger sister is the worst kind of bleeding heart social justice warrior lawyer, working for the gubmint to force compliance. Years ago she helped a woman file lawsuit under ADA regs when she was denied access to a local chocolate factory tour. She was denied access because she refused to go without her "comfort animal", a Golden Retriever. My very first question was, well, what does the Health Department say about animals in food prep areas? In her zeal to stick it to the chocolate shop, that thought had never occurred to her. I implored her to please check before she spent any more taxpayer monies in fighting another gubmint regulatory body's rules.

I wonder how much of that happens. That, and I personally know several small store owners who now post "no public restrooms" because ADA access requirements have become so expensive. My sister says they can appeal on financial hardship grounds, but readily admits that would cost more in lawyers' fees than actually complying. Or just putting up a sign...

[island911]

bleeding heart social justice warriors... always at the ready to offer up other people's time and money. :-/

in the Land of the Free Home of the Brave.

Guys like tummy-monk want to ensure the local dance studio has surplus handicap parking and that blind people have a great gun shopping experience. --such great priorities thar. Especially if it costs the business owner more than the pay-back will EVER be.

Seems that the bleeding heart social justice warriors get a high off of virtue signaling... never realizing that they are signaling their short-sighted time & energy wasting ways.

[dad911]

I've had to install handicap bathrooms, 2nd floor renovation in a small 100yr old office building, no elevator, so no way to get upstairs.

Also HC parking & bathrooms in a tennis center, again, stairs so no access.

People make a career out of starting legal actions for businesses not in compliance. Seen a few good mom&pops close because of it.

[Jrboulder]

So what, pass legislation saying gun stores don't have to be ADA compliant? I think FFL applications would rise significantly.

[surflvr911sc]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I wonder how many sighted people trip and injure themselves on the bumpy pads?

Probably many sighted persons have been injured from those bumps.

Because they were texting while walking.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by island911

bleeding heart social justice warriors... always at the ready to offer up other people's time and money. :-/

in the Land of the Free Home of the Brave.

Guys like tummy-monk want to ensure the local dance studio has surplus handicap parking and that blind people have a great gun shopping experience. --such great priorities thar. Especially if it costs the business owner more than the pay-back will EVER be.

Seems that the bleeding heart social justice warriors get a high off of virtue signaling... never realizing that they are signaling their short-sighted time & energy wasting ways.

No not really.

I've got no dog in this hunt.

I just generally adhere to the philosophy of not being a dick to others who got dealt a **** hand.

It's called compassion, empathy, humanity.

Try it some time.

Or don't.

Don't really care.

[Crowbob]

You have compassion, empathy and humanity but yet don't really care.

Noice!

Got both ends covered. Well done.

[island911]

And.. he gets to call others a Dick, while claiming he is not a Dick.

[ossiblue]

There appears to be some efforts being made to address some of the issues raised in this thread, especially the "drive-by" law suits against businesses that don't provide ADA access.

HR 620 is now in the Congress. Basically, it sets up an education program for business and disability advocates to improve compliance and understanding of ADA regulations. More importantly, it establishes a procedure that must be followed before civil litigation can take place. This procedure states that if one is to complain about non-compliance of a business;

“(i) that person has provided to the owner or operator of the accommodation a written notice specific enough to allow such owner or operator to identify the barrier; and

“(ii)(I) during the period beginning on the date the notice is received and ending 60 days after that date, the owner or operator fails to provide to that person a written description outlining improvements that will be made to remove the barrier; or

“(II) if the owner or operator provides the written description under subclause (I), the owner or operator fails to remove the barrier or to make substantial progress in removing the barrier during the period beginning on the date the description is provided and ending 120 days after that date.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/620/text

Seems like a good bill, to me.