Classic Cars

[dan88911]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/classic-car-advice-thoughts-local-180540834.html

Saw this today.
Thought you all would enjoy it.

[tabs]

I liked it...a good perspective..

[Bob Kontak]

I like that guy. Thanks.

[Sooner or later]

I thought leaded gas was to lube the valve seat and not the valve guide. I have used hardened valve seats on a k code 289 but I can't remember making any significant changes to the valve guides.

[sammyg2]

tetra-ethyl lead was used as a cheap octane booster it was discovered that it had some other benefits too.
I knew about it cushioning the valve seats but hadn't heard about the valve guides.
I figured they were still made out of good ole silicon bronze and were lubrimacated by the engine oil.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

tetra-ethyl lead was used as a cheap octane booster it was discovered that it had some other benefits too.
I knew about it cushioning the valve seats but hadn't heard about the valve guides.
I figured they were still made out of good ole silicon bronze and were lubrimacated by the engine oil.

My thoughts, exactly.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

My thoughts, exactly.

LOL makes sense, but I've been wrong before.
I know, I saw me do it!

[ficke]

Lead for valves train is an American car thing. Other than a MG I can not think of another countries car engines that were built as cheap and simple as the US. there is no post WW2 manufacture that I know of other than US that needed lead, other than some MG's.
If your car has a aluminum head you know it does not need lead.
The US auto makers for awhile, all of them, would just bore a hole in a cast iron head and call that a valve guide, it was a valve guide, but it was just a hole in the cast iron the valve ran in. The US manufactures would just cut the cast iron where the valve seated on the head and call that a valve seat, yup the valve seated there but it was just cast iron.
All aluminum head engine, VW, Porsche, Ferrari, Datsun, Toyota, Mazda, etc. all have hardened seats added and some sort of silcon bronze valve guide.
So that "Lead is need for classic cars" is untrue.
Lead is needed for American classic cars is true, if they have not been rebuilt properly.

[RKDinOKC]

In the late 80's rebuilt a 79 400 big valve small block to go in my 81 GMS Jimmy that originally had a 305 small block. Thought it was great because I could have the motor certified as Pre-1980 and toss all the emissions EGR, smog pump, cats, etc. When I rebuilt it I also did what was necessary for unleaded. All that was necessary was hardened valve seats. Valves the same, guides the same, just the valve seats had hardened inserts installed.

[RANDY P]

I can't imagine anything other than an untouched survivor would still have soft seats and guides.

We've been without lead for 30 years, if it's gonna break it would've broken by now.

rjp

[pwd72s]

I like the guy too...especially his closing statement. He'd been there-done-that enough to have zero interest in owning a "classic".

You could tell he is a good wrench...the bandaged thumb gave it away.

[KNS]

I could have sworn I watched Edd China remove a Triumph straight six head to rebuild the head and valve seats. The car had been running unleaded gas but wth a lead additive mixed in.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by KNS

I could have sworn I watched Edd China remove a Triumph straight six head to rebuild the head and valve seats. The car had been running unleaded gas but wth a lead additive mixed in.

There might be some other British engines built as cheap as the US made them and MG.
I mainly worked on Italian and German and Japanese cars and of course a ton of domestic iron and really just a sprinkling of British stuff, so I could be wrong and maybe some other British firms other than MG did it to. Jags. and Aston Martins had hardened seats and bronze valve guides, but they of course had Aluminum heads.
When I say MG I am thinking of the A series engine which is actually a Austin/BMC engine and was used in the MG midget, Mini, AH bug eye Sprite, Metropolitan Nash and most likely some other cars too. I really am not that familiar with all British makes.
I also never heard or seen a valve guides sizing because of unleaded gas.
I have seen them seize from old gas, which turns kind of like a hot glue. As long as the engine is warm it is OK but the next day valves glued in the guides. I have seen punched out lifter and bent push rods on a SBC from old gas and a 1922 dodge truck engine that pushed the valve guide in the head rather than slide the valve, it was so sized from old gas.
Old gas is really bad.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by ficke

There might be some other British engines built as cheap as the US made them and MG.
I mainly worked on Italian and German and Japanese cars and of course a ton of domestic iron and really just a sprinkling of British stuff, so I could be wrong and maybe some other British firms other than MG did it to. Jags. and Aston Martins had hardened seats and bronze valve guides, but they of course had Aluminum heads.
When I say MG I am thinking of the A series engine which is actually a Austin/BMC engine and was used in the MG midget, Mini, AH bug eye Sprite, Metropolitan Nash and most likely some other cars too. I really am not that familiar with all British makes.
I also never heard or seen a valve guides sizing because of unleaded gas.
I have seen them seize from old gas, which turns kind of like a hot glue. As long as the engine is warm it is OK but the next day valves glued in the guides. I have seen punched out lifter and bent push rods on a SBC from old gas and a 1922 dodge truck engine that pushed the valve guide in the head rather than slide the valve, it was so sized from old gas.
Old gas is really bad.

We recently took apart a motorhome engine. Motorhomes tend to sit a lot. Pushrods were bent and valves were stuck in the guides. Glued is a good description.

[daepp]

Good advice - thanks!

[sc_rufctr]

For me cars peaked early 90s. IMO OBD2 was the start of the decline so I avoid anything post 1995.

As far as classics go. I'd challenge anyone to find a nicer riding sports car than my 1978 911SC. Sporty handling but still relatively soft.
Torsion bar suspension is way underrated. What's lacking is decent climate controls but that's not really a big deal for me.

I recently drove my cousin's current model M3. Great drivers car but the ride is dreadful. (He ordered the bigger wheels)
How anyone can put up with that day to day is beyond me.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by ficke

Lead is needed for American classic cars is true, if they have not been rebuilt properly.

Not all American classics were built so cheaply. Chrysler flatheads had steel seats clear back to the early 30s.

[jakebarrell]

Wow! I liked the details provided in there. Thanks for sharing!

[ficke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Not all American classics were built so cheaply. Chrysler flatheads had steel seats clear back to the early 30s.

Thanks.
This really puts the OP linked videos mech. advice and statements into question.
So Chrysler flat head engines did not have problem with unleaded gas going back to the 30's. So right there the line "Classic cars need lead" is wrong from a Chrysler point of view, maybe some did but not the flat heads going back to the 30's.
Also unleaded gas does not glue valves in guides, old gas does. And there is nothing you can do to classic car engine (or new car engine) to prevent that. Just do not run old gas.
Generally speaking, unleaded gas was a problem with American car engines and some British cars if they were made with out hardened valve seats. But classic cars made by Porsche, Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Fiat, Jaguar, Aston Martin, VW, Datsun, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota, Mercedes to name a few did not need lead in the gas for valves.

[sammyg2]