"Blue Paint" Engines

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I hated having this stuff in the back of my mind when I had my 997S.

I would like to own a Cayman S, but every time I look at one, I can't get it out of my head that I would be driving a $25k car that could suddenly need a $15k engine replacement.

Is my 2003 Mustang Mach 1 as good as a 2003 911? No, I don't think so. But it's plenty fast, and I can rag the sh t of it without a care in the world.

That's what infuriates me the most: if I knew then what I know now, I would have simply BOUGHT A DIFFERENT PORSCHE.

[Tobra]

While this is disappointing, I can't say I am surprised. Makes picking the turbo Miata over the Boxster S look like a pretty smart call. Just buy gas, oil and sticky tires for that thing.

[sc_rufctr]

Awful business. That would certainly be a big deal to me.

What infuriates me is that if this was happening with Hyundai's it would be all over the news.
Considering the Diesel gate thing with the VW group I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche knew the engines weren't up to scratch but installed them anyway.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

That's what infuriates me the most: if I knew then what I know now, I would have simply BOUGHT A DIFFERENT PORSCHE.

Are you a glutton for punishment?

[Brando]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

Just out of curiosity, what were the symptoms of your failure? [...]

Here's the video I took right as the failure occurred:


Symptoms were LOUD noise across all RPMs, no power, stumbling, rich smell out the tail pipe. No smoke, though. I pulled the oil filter to inspect it for debris with no signs, so the IMSB did not have a massive failure, but could have caused the valve-train to become damaged.



I wish you the best of luck with your car and engine. I still get the bug to look at early 2000's Caymans and Boxsters every so often, then get flash-backs to the joy lost with my CS. Then I see the new Miata MX-5 RF or Fiat 124 Abarth for reasonable prices and think "why go back?". Maybe when I've got the money to buy the car, then replace it with a V8 or do a 3.8L rebuild to address all the defects it would definitely be an investment of love. And I'm all out of extra love to give.

[pwd72s]

Guys, we fled to German cars back in the 60's and 70's because they offered better quality than the domestics. Sadly, that's no longer the case.

If it's long life without hassles today, better look to Japanese first, domestics (thinking Ford) next, then Germans. Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes seem to be trading on past reputation.

I'm basing this strictly on the utilitarian value of the automobile as the appliance it really is. Not factoring in driving thrills, status appeal, and other reasons Porsche is chosen. So..you pay your money and make your choices.

In the case of my '09 Bullitt model, I'd call it a compromise car. Surprisingly, it's performance numbers of 0-60, 1/4 mile, G forces it's capable of, are all very similar to my old '72 911S, probably a hair superior. One bit of fun I had was outpulling a Boxster S up the Salem hills of I-5, watching his expression change from "I got this" to WTF?" But the overall feel? More isolated due to more weight, power steering, the stick rear axle, other factors.

Comfort? Hooboy, much better than the old S. Seating alone, since the Bullitt models were given the same leather as the Mustang GT500 of the same year. Toss in great air conditioning and a pretty good stereo, and it's a luxury car by comparison.

Problems? None in the 26,000 miles I've driven. Not anticipating any, since others with stock Bullitts on the Bullitt board have gone well past 100,000 with little more than routine service. I've replaced the original battery with an optima, and I'm on my 2nd set of tires (Conti SWS 06 all season) and that's it. Those who have done blowers or even more extensive power adding mods have the problems, but not me.

Exciting? Nope, not really. There are tons of S197 'Stangs out there, so nothing exclusive. It's definitely no Porsche. But at this stage of my life, I consider that a good thing.

Flame away...

[Steve Carlton]

I had an '89 Mustang LX 5.0 Sport from new that I babied and the oil pump failed, taking down the engine at 80,000 miles. The gear in the oil pump just hogged out the space it was in the aluminum housing until it caught and jammed.

[cstreit]

This sort of stuff makes me want to switch loyalties...

Outside of specialty models like the GT3, are they just another car now?

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I had an '89 Mustang LX 5.0 Sport from new that I babied and the oil pump failed, taking down the engine at 80,000 miles. The gear in the oil pump just hogged out the space it was in the aluminum housing until it caught and jammed.

I've gotta ask... Brando, the mileage of your Porsche when the engine failed?

[dan79brooklyn]

Reading stuff like this really sours me off from wanting to buy a 986 or 996. Which sucks because they're the only models which are affordable these days.

Back when I had an SC we only worried about head studs...

Catastrophic engine failures really are pretty lame for Porsche.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

I've gotta ask... Brando, the mileage of your Porsche when the engine failed?

No worries Paul, I had just passed 136k miles. New MAF one month prior, new plugs 2 months prior, oil changes every 5k miles, carnewal exhaust, softronic tune... That car was so much fun to drive but everything cost cubic dollars.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Brando

No worries Paul, I had just passed 136k miles. New MAF one month prior, new plugs 2 months prior, oil changes every 5k miles, carnewal exhaust, softronic tune... That car was so much fun to drive but everything cost cubic dollars.

The extra costs are known as "The Porsche tax"...to be expected. At 136K? Well, you were due, I guess.

[1990C4S]

You should not assume the engine has grenaded.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

If it's long life without hassles today, better look to Japanese first, domestics (thinking Ford) next, then Germans. Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes seem to be trading on past reputation.

Flame away...

You forgot Korean:

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis-coupe/index.aspx

RWD with 348HP

[motion]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

The extra costs are known as "The Porsche tax"...to be expected. At 136K? Well, you were due, I guess.

Hey Paul, you're going to have a great time boosting your post count with this thread, aren't you? Probably giggling like a little girl right now.

[motion]

My wife was in the market for a car a few months ago. She agreed on a 997.2 with PDK, and I set out looking for one. I have an investor-oriented mind and don't like throwing away good money, so I found that anything that was only a few years old with a remaining warranty was going to have a very, very steep depreciation curve. In all likelihood, that meant losing $30K or more over time on this car. I could lessen the hit by going for an early 997.2, and looked at a few, but in the end I decided I was uncomfortable with owning a water cooled Porsche out of warranty. Too many variables and unknowns.

We went with a new Mercedes, so now we can enjoy the car for 4 years without worry.

Porsche is no different then BMW, Range Rover, Jag, Aston, etc. Its a roll of the dice. You're a blink of the eye away from a $10K + repair bill.

Moving forward, we're only going to get into a Porsche for her if its new or near new and comes with a full factory warranty. I don't see that day coming any time soon

[Jeff Higgins]

I have to tell you guys (after reading this thread and the referenced Planet 9 thread with great interest) that I smell another blown-way-out-of-proportion internet panic. It has all of the ingredients - the accused company in denial it's doing anything wrong, folks "in the know" at that company saying otherwise, reputable mechanics having done a great deal of research, and on and on. Quite the nefarious scheme, replete with all of the intrigue requisite for such.

Bottom line is, the failure rate on newer Porsche engines is so small as to be insignificant (I believe they still lead the J.D. Powers surveys on owner satisfaction, and have for some time). Unless, of course, it is yours and it's out of warranty - then it is very significant to you, the owner, and looking at a $15k bill, we all want to see another answer. Misdeeds at the manufacturer are the best - they may gain you a free repair, if ever proven.

Now if it was yours from new, and you are therefore knowledgeable about its history, care, and upkeep, that's one thing - assuming it's been well treated and cared for. If it's used, even with the ability to kinda sorta evaluate its history both from maintenance records and stored in the car electronic records (over revs, etc.), face it - you still don't know how the thing was really treated. You are buying a performance car that may have been "ridden hard and put away wet" as a matter of course, or you may be buying one that was treated respectfully. You just don't know. A "premature" engine failure on such a car - and I would not categorize one failing with over 100k on the clock as such - has always been kind of the lotto we play when purchasing used toys of this sort.

As far as Porsche "remanufacturing" an engine that failed any part of its testing - why the hell not? I think any manufacturer that does not utilize the good components from their rejected assemblies - motors, trannies, brakes, suspension - whatever - would have to be insane. Would it trouble any of you to know that in large commercial aircraft manufacturing, the re-use of good components from a failed or out of spec assembly is common practice? Come on, think about this for a moment. I suppose this might speak to the less than mechanically inclined, to know that their motor was partially assembled with the good parts of a "bad" motor - they think they are getting a less than top quality unit. Hogwash. These are all zero mile components. "Remanufactured" sounds ominous, like a high mileage rebuilt motor, at least to the folks who don't understand manufacturing.

So, yeah - seems like much ado about nothing to me. Another perfect "conspiracy theory" that those staring a $15k bill in the face really want to believe. Some big evil corporation put their motor together knowing it would fail. Out of warranty, of course - their predictive modeling can nail its service life that closely to where the company knows it is safe... Really? Does anyone really believe all of that? I suppose...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Ditto Jeff. Rarely happens, sucks big time if it happens to you. Nobody remembers the past realities of the air cooled world like thermal reactors, head studs, failing chain tensioner, exploding air boxes, etc. You gotta pay to play, and compared to every other luxury or performance car company, I put my faith in Porsche all day long.

CJ, don't automatically assume the worst. Make sure you have a very good shop checking it out, because it's really easy to jump to popular assumptions vs a full and thorough investigation.

[Tobra]

They have a duty to disclose they are selling a new car with a rebuilt engine, even if it is factory rebuilt. If they get sued by someone in Texas over this, Deceptive Trade Practice statute would apply and they very likely would be shelling out $45K on a $15K rebuild.

Failure rate is not the issue.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by motion

Hey Paul, you're going to have a great time boosting your post count with this thread, aren't you? Probably giggling like a little girl right now.

Well, I did invite you to flame away, didn't I? Gee, that's the best you can do?