The opiod epidemic....

[fastfredracing]

One of our local officers stops in all the time. Super cool guy. 5 years out from throat cancer . They say he is cured.
Anyhow, was telling me how he arrested all these junkies over the years, and really looked down on them, never understood how they got to be in such bad shape, and really blamed the individual .
He checked himself into re-hab . After 6 months of Oxy use for real, honest to goodness pain, he simply could not kick the habit. He said it was the scariest thing he has ever experienced. A life time of no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, and he found himself in the same place as all the degenerates he had been arresting all these years.
Kind of an eye opener for me.
Some of you clearly have no idea of the dynamics of this whole drug thing

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by BK911

My sister and both nephews are all addicted to opiods. ...

My older sis has been prescribed literally thousands of pills over the years . The methadone clinic is the only thing that keeps her alive anymore....I know your pain brother.
And hell yeah...smoking MJ all day long is a walk in the sunshine compared to opiates....I wish her the best....

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by KC911

When Oxy was developed, big pharma had an intense marketing campaign towards doctors, and hid the darker side...it's dangerously addictive...we all know that now....they knew it then, but convinced the docs otherwise imo

All opiates are dangerously addictive, they did not hide squat.

Originally Posted by svandamme

It is a pharma issue when the doctors are in their pockets and prescribing the legal drugs like hotcakes.

No offense intended, but you don't know what you are talking about. Oh yeah, ibuprofen is a prescription drug here too.

Originally Posted by tadd

Two famous examples... COX2 inhibitors. Did a ton of good for a huge number of people (10s of millions). Triggered heart attacks in less than a thousand. Drug was pulled. Thalimaide (sp?). Amazing medication for leprosy. Pulled cause it got tried for morning sickness and lead to birth defects.

1.No, COX2 inhibitors did not trigger heart attacks. Correlation vs Causation, coupled with flawed clinical trials.
2.Thalidomide

Originally Posted by KC911

Anyone want to comment on the link Stephanie posted? I've seen it before, so I wasn't news to me....

It was up to the pharmacies to report it, not McKesson.

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

This whole "I deserve no discomfort, or pain" attitude that most people have is the problem.

This, end of thread, or should be. Turns out, not so much

Originally Posted by svandamme

Seriously, Docs are not researchers, they'll just prescribe whatever the Pharma reps tell em ...

no

Originally Posted by KC911

Obviously. Some of the drug stores here are now limiting their pain meds to a 7 day supply....kudos for them.

It is almost certainly illegal for them to do this.

Originally Posted by KC911

There is no "feeling better" aspect once addicted....it doesn't sound as if your doc even understands opoid addiction....most don't

Sure there is. They start going into withdrawal, which is rough, get some dope and the withdrawal stops, they feel better.

Originally Posted by BK911

My sister and both nephews are all addicted to opiods. She OD' d three times. Flat lined and had to be resuscitated. She recently got a MJ prescription and can legally purchase it in DC. Now all three of them smoke all day, but are off the opiods.

Pretty well documented that people use less opiates for pain if they are concurrently using marijuana. Pain management doctors, the ones prescribing the lion's share of opiates, drug test and will fire the patients that come back positive for marijuana or negative for opiates.

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I don't know if you see these American drug company commercials on tv in Europe, but we are bombarded with them, and they list all kinds of negative side effects, often making me wonder which disease is worse than that "cure." If not for tv ads, I'd have never heard of any of these drugs. I think they're intended to prompt consumers to ask their doctors about or to prescribe them for them. But they are pretty forthcoming about the side effects - thoughts of suicide, blindness, dry mouth, impotence, seizures - you name it. They are read off aloud at the end of each of those commercials.

So I have to put this back on the prescribing doctors. The drug makers can't write scripts. They can only send their hot female sales reps to the doctors' offices to convince them that their drug is better than another one already out there. What company doesn't do this? The FDA and DEA need to do a better job of policing this where the scripts get written.

[KFC911]

Sorry Toby...didn't want to mislead...methadone treatment is EXTREMELY regulated (rightfully so)....any trace of anything else (even an aspirin) is scrutinized. That said....now throw twice the medically acceptable levels of Ambien into the mix....

Doctor prescribes, drug store supplies....

And if none of y'all think this applies to you....well, they're driving under the influence of this schit...just about every one . For some reason, prescription meds get a pass by LEO even if the driver is whacked out of their mind and totals 3 cars or is just TOTALLY fuked up driving at 8 am, two blocks after leaving their clinic .

How I know this? ...I was called to the scene

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Some of you clearly have no idea of the dynamics of this whole drug thing

You are correct. I have seen it closer to me (offspring) than I care to openly discuss and I still ask what the hell are they (he) thinking. Just don't do it and get your life back together, right? Simple. Easy-peasy.

[KFC911]

Bob, I feel for you to brother...sometimes life just sux...

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by KC911

Bob, I feel for you to brother...sometimes life just sux...

For my son it does. He is incarcerated. I have the benefit of knowing he probably won't die tonight.

A simple path was laid out for him for all to be expunged. Could not do it.

Info technology four year degree. Smart as a whip.

Several felonies that will now stick.

Opana. Severe pain opiate.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

For my son it does. He is incarcerated. I have the benefit of knowing he probably won't die tonight.

A simple path was laid out for him for all to be expunged. Could not do it.

Info technology four year degree. Smart as a whip.

Several felonies that will now stick.

Opana. Severe pain opiate.

Tragic....played out on a scale that I don't think many can even fathom. I wish you all the best...

[VINMAN]

I work part time as an investigator for the medical examiner's office. Opioid OD deaths account for a very, very small fraction of our cases.

On the other hand, heroin deaths account for about 80% of our accepted cases.

.

[tadd]

Tobra:
I think you are incorrect about false cardiac connections, there is a mechanistic reason... from here: MMS: Error

Important bit:
Coincident with the approval of rofecoxib and celecoxib in 1999, my colleagues and I reported that both drugs suppressed the formation of prostaglandin I2 in healthy volunteers.2 Prostaglandin I2 had previously been shown to be the predominant cyclooxygenase product in endothelium, inhibiting platelet aggregation, causing vasodilatation, and preventing the proliferation of vascular smooth-muscle cells in vitro. However, it was assumed that prostaglandin I2 was derived mainly from COX-1, the only cyclooxygenase species expressed constitutively in endothelial cells. This assumption later proved incorrect, since studies in mice and humans showed that COX-2 was the dominant source. The individual cardiovascular effects of prostaglandin I2 in vitro contrast with those of thromboxane A2, the major COX-1 product of platelets, which causes platelet aggregation, vasoconstriction, and vascular proliferation.

Whereas aspirin and traditional NSAIDs inhibit both thromboxane A2 and prostaglandin I2, the coxibs leave thromboxane A2 generation unaffected, reflecting the absence of COX-2 in platelets. Increasing laminar shear stress in vitro increases the expression of the gene for COX-2, leading our group to suggest that COX-2 might be hemodynamically induced in endothelial cells in vivo. If so, suppression of the COX-2–dependent formation of prostaglandin I2 by the coxibs might predispose patients to myocardial infarction or thrombotic stroke.

Thus, a single mechanism, depression of prostaglandin I2 formation, might be expected to elevate blood pressure, accelerate atherogenesis, and predispose patients receiving coxibs to an exaggerated thrombotic response to the rupture of an atherosclerotic plaque. The higher a patient's intrinsic risk of cardiovascular disease, the more likely it would be that such a hazard would manifest itself rapidly in the form of a clinical event.

However, my point was that even if there is a possibility of a cardiac event, it should be up to the patient and doctor to decide if that risk is worth it for them.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

I work part time as an investigator for the medical examiner's office. Opioid OD deaths account for a very, very small fraction of our cases.

On the other hand, heroin deaths account for about 80% of our accepted cases.

.

Thanks Vinman...I suspect that's probably the ratio here, but have no clue. But the heroin users go that route AFTER getting addicted via script. If the H is pure and clean...not much difference....enhance the H with Fentanyl and they drop like flies and die....

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by KC911

Thanks Vinman...I suspect that's probably the ratio here, but have no clue. But the heroin users go that route AFTER getting addicted via script. If the H is pure and clean...not much difference....enhance the H with Fentanyl and they drop like flies and die....

Most of the H users go into it after moving up other " recreational" drugs. It is beyond cheap. Extremely rare will you ever find pure heroin. It is all laced with so much garbage.

Fentanyl is now our nightmare.


One thing that is really disturbing is hearing some of the MD's I've dealt with over the years, getting bagged for writing bad scripts. Its sad.


.

[tadd]

KC:
I'm now confused. Heroin cut with fentanyl is a completely different problem and not even remotely related to prescription opiates.

I thought the issue of the opioid epidemic was prescription drugs, not illicit? Illegal fentanyls are home brew, not COTs. You can get the one pot synthesis from the peer reviewed literature.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by KC911

Tragic....played out on a scale that I don't think many can even fathom. I wish you all the best...

Thanks. He has never done Heroin (coming from him). He always had the $ to buy the higher end illicit but real Opana.

His very recent trouble stems from alcohol abuse. He is not a chill drunk.

OK. I'll shut up. It is as Tadd says off topic.

Thank you for the kind words.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by tadd

KC:
I'm now confused. Heroin cut with fentanyl is a completely different problem and not even remotely related to prescription opiates.

.....

I and the experts disagree with Vinman 100% on this....they are related. Don't know "which" recreational drugs Vinny is talking about, but here, amost every single heroin user started using H after getting addicted to prescription meds...you say they aren't remotely related,
the reality is that they are directly related...almost a given. Even if you take H out of the equation, the number of script opiate ODs is still epidemic here.... H w/ Fentanyl has just blown it through the stratosphere...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Thanks. He has never done Heroin (coming from him). He always had the $ to buy the higher end illicit but real Opana.

His very recent trouble stems from alcohol abuse. He is not a chill drunk.

OK. I'll shut up. It is as Tadd says off topic.

Thank you for the kind words.

You can't go off topic, on my thread in off topic Bob, thank you for sharing. If it helps inform folks about stuff that is right under their very noses, that they are unaware of....it is a good thing imo.

[VINMAN]

KC, I never said they weren't related. All I said was a lot of the cases I see, the user did not have a previous, script opioid issue.


.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

KC, I never said they weren't related. All I said was a lot of the cases I see, the user did not have a previous, script opioid issue.


.

Sorry Vin....the related part was mixing stuff in my post...didn't mean to infer that you said that. I hear what you're saying...interesting that it differs about the script > H connection here. The experts say it's almost a given....hype or truth...I dunno.

[BK911]

Yup, my sis started with a perc script, then for whatever she could get. Would take 10+ 10mg percs and chew the slow release fentenal patches. Kids would steal her percs. Then they graduated to heroin. But all started with a script.