The opiod epidemic....
 

Watched an hour long documentary last night...what big pharma has done to this country in the quest for profits is no different than the herion cartels.....neither one gives a damn about anything but $ :(

I really don’t understand how it is so much a pharma issue as a criminal one. When one can sell a bottle of medicine that cost them a dollar or two (after insurance) for a thousand...it is little wonder they do so. Especially since the nation seems to have a large segment that self medicate with drugs from alcohol to marijuana and the marketing is massive that it is not only ok....but anyone who points out the dangers is simply an uncaring ass. The same for opioids. They are an effective pain killer...and doctors must prescribe it for patients who claim severe pain to meet required standards of care. Time to crack down on all illegal drug sales and throw the book at those who sell illegal drugs. It is also time to ask Hollywood to stop glorifying drug use.

KC:
I fall into the liberal category on almost all things social, and truly belive that government has a place in helping those in society. Often times I do disagree with how the idea is played out, but the idea is sound.

For example, love canal exists. Upton Sinclar wrote about the meat packing industry, ect. People do bad things against society and society protects itself with governmental laws.

That said, I do recognize that deep down we as individuals are society. Government can only protect the normal from the 3rd deviation. In other words, people as individuals have to choose to watch their individual medications for themselves. Should those drugs be regulated pure by the government? You bet. I shouldn't have to have an NMR in my basement to know if what is on the bottle is in the bottle. Part of why the FDA exists is a bad run of sulfa drugs killing thousands.

My wife will be having pretty major surgical procedure soon to deal with cancer, this crazy opioid crap would have her sent home with Tylenol by default unless she asks for stronger. WTF. Opioids have there place since they don't contribute to bleeding like NSAIDs do. After surgery, you might like to minimize bleeding and not have to suffer from pain!

Bottom line. Pharma didn't do squat. People and their doctors did.

Nope....we just disagree. When big pharma is selling enough "heroin in a pill" to get EVERY single American addicted, each year, then follow the money. Though pain managament is a REAL issue, and should be addressed humanely imo...docs and big pharma actually push this crap on the unsuspecting public :(. I haven't had more than an aspirin since college, but I'm just damn lucky. 30 years sgo, I had vaguely heard of Percocet (and how addictive it was), so after a knee sugery, when the doc prescribed 50 Percocets for me to take, I went to the drug store and asked for 2....just in case...never took one. If I had followed the doctors orders, then I would have been addicted to opium....ten years later, Oxy hit the scene, and here we are....

When Oxy was developed, big pharma had an intense marketing campaign towards doctors, and hid the darker side...it's dangerously addictive...we all know that now....they knew it then, but convinced the docs otherwise imo :(

Article about McKesson and opioids, if you're interested.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/mckesson-dea-opioids-fine/2017/12/14/ab50ad0e-db5b-11e7-b1a8-62589434a581_story.html?utm_term=.a8e8c646763e

It is a pharma issue when the doctors are in their pockets and prescribing the legal drugs like hotcakes.

Y'all get painkillers like candy in the us.
here you gotta be End Stage Cancer with only a couple of weeks to live, and then you might get Fentanyl, but the doc will give you a stern warning 'Not to much, wouldn't want you do get addicted before you die from your cancer"

Seriously in the US you get light opiods for things that we get a prescription of Ibuprofen for.
And yes, Ibuprofen is a prescription drug here. Not kidding you.

Y'all have to easy access to heavy legal drugs because Big Pharma doesn't want to see any stricter rules as that would impact their sales. Fact.
They use the revolving door with the FDA and they use it very effectively.

Those who review the drugs leave the FDA all the time to go work with the Pharmaceutical companies. So who are they working for , do you think?

Jobs taken after working in the FDA’s Oncology Products Division :

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/5JVY...24.31%20AM.png

What leads you to believe that doctors are “in the pocket” of pharma?

Where would you expect people who worked at FDA onocolgy to work after leaving? McDonalds?

Well, maybe in Belgium, but here in NL we can buy ibuprofen in the supermarket.

KC:
Every drug has side effects. We are complicated systems of systems of systems.

Medication should be between you and your doctor. USE as appropriate! Government should ensure purity and published efficacy.

Two famous examples... COX2 inhibitors. Did a ton of good for a huge number of people (10s of millions). Triggered heart attacks in less than a thousand. Drug was pulled. Thalimaide (sp?). Amazing medication for leprosy. Pulled cause it got tried for morning sickness and lead to birth defects.

There is a patient/doctor relationship. In theory, this should be a meeting of equal minds. However, most tend to just defer and many doctors don't take the time to ensure the patient understands the benefits and risks (they do have other patients to see... and some folks can be dense). Should the doctor be a bartender? Calling a halt when its clear there shouldn't be an issue? I would say yes, as that falls under their oath. Prescribing an opiate for pain isn't the problem. Re-upping that script long after it shouldn't be required doesn't do anyone any good, but get the patient out of the doctors office.

You are exaggerating. I worked as a Regulatory Affairs professional for 15 years after 30 years as a research chemist. That "revolving door" you so blithely refer to stops quickly and more frequently than you know. It is not easy nor quick to get medications through the FDA. Heck even toothpaste is subjected to federal regulation.

Doctors in our pockets? What a joke. We can't even buy them a meal without approval and documentation.

Yes FDA officials do find employment in the industry after life in the FDA. It's their chance to finally make decent money using their education and skills. But they are subject to the same scrutiny that any Pharma scientist is and we do get reviewed, thoroughly by the gov't checking into shady practices. The Park Doctrine can reach deeply into an organization.

Anyone still under the impression that Rx meds are completely safe and without risk has been asleep for decades. Even Ibuprofen has risks.

SV:
Hyperbole much? At least I hope so... A doctor telling a patient that has is priorities all wrong.

End of life and geriatric care is a very different beast than treating the rest of the population with respect to how medications/treatments are provided. Typically medicines are looser and procedures are tighter. My FIL is 81. He has horrible arthritis. Who cares if he is on opiates if he can get about now and better enjoy his remaining years? We, as a family, just make sure he doesn't drive. Like most things, its about making choices and if that choice (medication in this instance) benefits you.

Addiction to pharma opium is a disease that is gonna kill a LOT of people today....a disease that wasn't even on the radar 25 years ago. The root cause of this disease is increasing profits for the suppliers...

Anyone want to comment on the link Stephanie posted? I've seen it before, so I wasn't news to me....

Just to be clear...I agree with you 100% for opiod use for these folks....give 'em anything and everything....

KC:
So my comment to the article posted is that a pharma company was acting as an ILLEGAL drug 'dealer/supplier'.

IMHO, that is something that government should be involved with as society has determined that government has a place in societal security.

Which begs an interesting point I hadn't considered yet... are the deaths and 'epidemic' due to illegal opioid use or prescription? Has that been broken down?

Sometimes PARF makes me think. Most of the time it makes me hold my nose :-).

This whole "I deserve no discomfort, or pain" attitude that most people have is the problem. I have been through some hellish injuries, and sicknesses and never gotten hooked any any pain meds. After my recent car accident, with a pelvis shattered in 10 places, broken foot, and 4 ribs, I took Oxycontin for about 2 days when I was finally able to come home. I couldn't stand the side effects, so I didn't take ANYTHING else including OTC drugs. I believe that most people are scared of pain, so they medicate every little ache, and ailment. My MIL asked me for the remainder of my Oxy presciption for an ailment she had been nursing for 6 months, and had run it's course of prescriptions from 2 different doctors.

Tadd...it's both imo but have no idea of the ratio....pharma verses heroin use here. The experts agree on this however....most of the heroin addicts got addicted to prescription pain meds initially....

I live in a relatively small city of 100k...there were 300 overdoses and 17 deaths by OD last year....heroin has flooded the streets to fill the demand also....it sucks. There is no way to stereotype the users....it's permeated every aspect of our society....

You can blame big Pharma, or the prescribing doctors if you want, but ultimately, it is the weak willed consumer who is popping the pills, and demanding more, creating an addiction.

As far as treating these overdoses, I don't see the reason to provide free, unlimited Nalaxone doses for these addicts at a huge cost for the taxpayers....let Darwin do his work.

Even with Nalaxone being administered, my rather rural county in Ohio had 19 deaths last year from the opiod problem.

You're spot on...I've cringed when I've read your story before and what you've endured. I broke my nose in college....doc gave me a Tylenol 3 (fairly mild codeine boost) for my walk back to the dorm.....I didn't like how it made me feel and haven't taken anything else for pain in almost 4 decades....I'm no superman, but cringe when I think about those 50 Percocets that doc needlessly prescribed for me....

Don't agree with the first part....many folks will do what the doc says or take whatever prescription he writes with no questions asked.

Second part....yep, there's no telling how many OD were not fatal last year due to Nalaxone...LEOs, etc. all carry it here too...

Heck, I wanna live.

FDA Bans Toothpaste From China

FDA Bans Toothpaste From China - ABC News
I don't understand this so-called the opioid crisis, can someone post a link to a good documentary I could watch on YouTube or something?

Start by reading the link PorscheGAL (Stephanie) posted...

sure, but y'all also let potheads buy there weed in shops. SmileWavy

Point remains that Europe has a lot lower use of painkillers.
Dentists don't knock the patient out with laughing gass for rootcanals
Chronic backpain, for the most part the best you will get is voltaren or ibuprofen.

You have to have a serious condition to get strong meds prescribed other then the few days , post operation in a hospital.



off course ibuprofen has risks..
reduces testosterone
makes yer balls shrink with continuous use .

in their pocket, perhaps poor choice of words.
I mean, the docs are not critical
They get a leaflet of a product
and a rep tells em how that product works, obviously emphasizing on the benefits so the doc "sells" it for them.

Obviously they won't sell it by warning and listing up the side effects and risks.

Look at Michael Jackson & Prince.
both extremely talented people that ended up killed by their own MD.

Why? Because the docs felt they could prescribe heavy painkillers and keep their patient happy and not running off to another doc to get theirs.

Why are the docs not critical and stricter?
Because they have a product sheet that says how the product will fix the issue better then another product. Because it says there are less side effects and better results.

And because the FDA approved it.

Surely there is an issue if people who are working for the FDA to approve medicine.
quit their job for a higher paying job at the pharmaceutical companies

Would they get that job if they had first denied approval for a new product that will make the hiring company a lot of money?
The high paying job is like a prize for approving things.
One could argue that it's like a delayed bribe.

I've never heard that before, just looked it up - wow.

My doc gave me ibuprofen for my herniated disks in my back.
He was like take 2 a day. 3 on a bad day.
Those were 600 mg pills.

2 weeks later i was in for something else, he goes, i'll get you a new prescription for the ibuprofen.
I was like nah, don't need it, only took 5 so far. I can go for another month or 2. (I took 1 half on a bad day)

Now the research says that 600 mg a day is enough to shrink yer balls and kill yer libido.



Same doc, 4 years ago.. looks at my bloodwork and goes, oh, your Triglycerices are well high.
I'm like ok how high?
well , we got normal low , high and very high levels, and you are about 1.5 times the very high level. I'll put you on the strongest statins we have..

I go home, i read up.. And i never took any statins, cause they are crap and do nothing for trigli's.

6 months later, he asks me about the statins, i'm like, not taking em, they don't work for that.


That was years ago.
4 months ago he does my blood work.
he goes, well, your triglis are still high, i could put you on statins for that. but it's probably genetic predisposition to high trigli's in your case
And from more recent information i got, they don't work to well for triglis.

I'm like WTF dude, I Was the one that told you that in the first place.


Seriously, Docs are not researchers, they'll just prescribe whatever the Pharma reps tell em ...

True, but this is a topic of addiction and the medical/pharmaceutical industry getting wealthy off of exploiting these people. Everything goes onto insurance. Insurance distributes theirs overhead cost$ to you and me. Poop rolls downhill. That's why even basic health insurance costs so much money.

Yes. Time to make those safer drugs legal so taxpayers don't have to pay $50k/yr/inmate for the law enforcement prison industry.

I don't know if you see these American drug company commercials on tv in Europe, but we are bombarded with them, and they list all kinds of negative side effects, often making me wonder which disease is worse than that "cure." If not for tv ads, I'd have never heard of any of these drugs. I think they're intended to prompt consumers to ask their doctors about or to prescribe them for them. But they are pretty forthcoming about the side effects - thoughts of suicide, blindness, dry mouth, impotence, seizures - you name it. They are read off aloud at the end of each of those commercials.

So I have to put this back on the prescribing doctors. The drug makers can't write scripts. They can only send their hot female sales reps to the doctors' offices to convince them that their drug is better than another one already out there. What company doesn't do this? The FDA and DEA need to do a better job of policing this where the scripts get written.

We only have limited advertisements here, for over the counter stuff.
the crap that doesn't do anything like painkiller ointment with 1 or 2% diclofenac (voltaren) in it, that supposedly will relieve you of joint and back pain but in reality only costs money and makes yer skin stick to your clothes.

Advertisement industry is much bigger in the US then it is here.
Again, the big companies have big lobbiest that ensure your politicians don't vote laws limiting their marketing and thus sales.

Until a few years ago it was illegal for lawyers to advertise here in Belgium, that only changed in recent years through some EU ruling.
But in general lawyers refrain from advertisments stating they think it demeans the way they as lawyers portray themselves and they don't wanna stoop to that level. (I can't say that without laughing)

Even Porsche, does not advertise here. They think it's beneath them to advertise like the common car brands.

obviously you know nothing about addiction..

No doubt the real burden is the patient begging for prescriptions, and doctors writing them to shut the patient up. There are regular stories of patients "doctor shopping" and going to doc after doc to get another prescription.

I had my hip replaced and was on some pain killers for a while. When it takes a walker to get to the bathroom the pain pills are needed. I got off the pills as soon as I could. I still have some of them in my bathroom that are several years out of date.

Obviously. Some of the drug stores here are now limiting their pain meds to a 7 day supply....kudos for them. They see the problem clearly imo. They've learned that more than 7 days and once addicted, the downward spiral of opiod addiction rears it's head.....user has no say so at the point :(

Very true once addicted....and there are plenty of docs that hand out scripts without much scrutiny too that enable it. But that's after the fact....addicts ARE gonna get it....if they can't get a doc to prescribe or can't afford the "good schit", then they turn to the cheaper, impure street version....heroin.

I've always been proud of my ability to tolerate pain and avoid pain meds. Had a cyst removed from my back a few years back. Cute doc asks if I want to be numbed first. I told her heck no I can handle it!

Required smelling salts.

In the US they do those disclaimers because it's the law.

The last TV commercial I saw with my wife I told her was funnier than a Saturday Night Live skit, she agreed - why would anyone take that stuff?

My Doctor had the best explanation. He would give me pain killers as long as they were to stop feeling pain not to feel better.

What is amazing is virtually every one of the drugs can cause diarrhea and constipation. :eek: How can it do both?

There is no "feeling better" aspect once addicted....it doesn't sound as if your doc even understands opoid addiction....most don't :(

At some point, the continued use is to 'stay normal' after the previous hangover so the symptoms are sometimes not yet there.

I once(one time) tried some opium hash in my youth and it was one of few drugs besides meth where I craved more directly after.
That was a tough train to slow down.

No, luckily I don't know anyone who has this problem....enlighten me about what you know !

My sister and both nephews are all addicted to opiods. She OD' d three times. Flat lined and had to be resuscitated. She recently got a MJ prescription and can legally purchase it in DC. Now all three of them smoke all day, but are off the opiods.