Any deck builders? Need decking gap advice
 

I'm rebuilding my entire 600 sq ft. deck (full thread to come) that was horrifically built originally (to put it mildly).

Anyways, the original deck was built using 2x6 as decking and I'm going with 1x6 hardwood for the new decking, I'm using the existing ledger size so there is a gap I can work with, but I wasn't sure if there should be a small gap between the flashing on the house and the deck boards (see pictures). The first picture is maximum gap, the second is the deck board at the top of the flashing. Should they be pressed up against the top of the flashing (like the second pic) or leave a small gap?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516484159.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516484173.jpg

Not an expert but I don't think you want contact on either side (top or bottom). Split the difference between what the 2 pics show.

I'd leave a slight gap on the top clearance and definitely on the edges around the house....but that'a just me....

I didn't get a picture next to a door, but my concern with splitting the difference would be is at one of the doors (3 sliding glass) is there is the door frame, then 1 inch of stucco, the the flashing so if I split the difference, it would add another ~.5 inch.

Its hard to visualize what a ~2.5 inch rise would look like from the deck board to step into the house, but my guess would be to make that as small as possible.

Also, the deck slopes slightly away from the house, not sure if that makes a difference in gap size or not.

One other question, is it usually easier/better to set all the joist hangers then come back through and set the joists or set the hangers with the actual joist all at the same time?

I have a simple jig (in the pictures) so I could do either way.

My first question is; are your joists 16" centers? with 2x6 decking they may have gone with 24" centers? I don't know I'm asking.

I would re-think the 1x lumber. At very least you are going to have a tremendous amount of bounce and movement. Keep the decking flat on the joist. Pack the gap and put a trim piece over that bridges between the packing and siding. Or pack the gap between the siding and joists and the start the decking at the packing.

Keep the decking flat on the deck. Cut a filler to use as a kick plate between the decking and door sill. The sloe of the deck is correct. That allows water to run away from the house. Should be about 1/2" to 1 foot run. What that means is it slopes down for every foot it goes out.

I use a cut off place it in the hanger. Set the top of the joist. Hard nail one side to the ledger or box. Let the other side hang. When you set your joists you can easily slide the joist in push the loose side tight to the joist and set it. That's just me nothing wrong with hard nailing the whole thing. The only issue you may have is if a joists is full of water it will be tight going in. May need extra persuasion.

I can't help with your question, but fun project! My deck project 10 years ago was the first and only "large" construction project I've ever undertaken. Very satisfying.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516486303.JPG

16" centers, the original deck was 24". If frame would have been salvageable, I would have just replaced the deck boards but the more I got into it, the worse it was. I'm certainly no expert in deck building but even I could see they cut as many corners as possible on the original build.

I'm using a Brazilian hardwood (Tigerwood). I already setup a test with an 8 ft. board over joists at 12, 16, and 24" to make sure it would work. At 24" there was a tiny amount of bounce/flex, at 16 and 12 it was completely solid, even with my fat a$$ jumping on it.

I tried out Tigerwood, Ipe, and Cumaru. I havent been wood working long but it is simply crazy how dense and heavy these south american hardwoods are.

The slope of the joists/decking worked out just like I calculated. I ran the calcs to make sure it would work out, but it's still a little surprising when it actually does:)

This is the same plan I had, so nice having the confirmation. I know there are several ways to go about this but this seemed the easiest. Trying to manhandle the full joist and mount the hanger seemed tough, even if the joist was hinged on the beam.

Ok, as long as you think it will be solid. I didn't want you to get all the decking down and get sea sick every time you walked across it because it bounced so much.

[QUOTE=motion;9893949]I can't help with your question, but fun project! My deck project 10 years ago was the first and only "large" construction project I've ever undertaken. Very satisfying.

Nice Motion.. mine is elevated, more along the lines of the smaller deck you have there in the background.

It has taken me since October, working on the weekends, to tear out the old deck and start the rebuild. The beam footers are the only thing I as able to keep. The original builder didnt do ANY type of water prevention. All of the joists were falling apart, the deck boards were painted and held water so my friend stepped completely through one and thats when I decided, it all goes in the trash.

I have until pool time to finish before the wife starts glaring, but taking my time and learning has been great. I love doing this stuff, just wish I didn't have a job that got in the way!:D

You could temporarily screw a piece of scrap to the bottom of the band and rest the loose end on the ledge while you work the other end.

That is why I set up the test. I walked on an old composite deck that had 16" centers and even though that is to code and recommendation, it felt bouncy to me. It didn't bother me but I can see where 12" max would be advised on softer wood or composite. Not sure if the capped composites or PVC are the same or not. Too much $$$ for those so never got into it.

I researched for a months before I started. I will be rebuilding this deck ONCE, EVER! If something happens and it needs to be rebuilt, the house will be sold first:)

I like your way, should work out fine.

I'm having the joists delivered next week. I'm sure they will be wet, but I've read to set the pressure treated parts wet so they can't twist/check once they are held down, but let the deck boards dry out to make sure they don't (or minimize it at least) before setting them.

I'll be using the Camo hidden fastener system to screw everything down. I don't mind the face screwed look but only if it's done very straight and symmetrical. Plus this hardwood would need pre-drilling to do that. The Camo screws have a built in drill feature in their screws, plus sort of hidden while still being able to remove single planks will be nice.

Not sure where you are getting the treated lumber from but the beauty of HD and Lowes is the ability to take things back. That being said, if this were a commercial job I would agree hang the $h!t as fast as you can and get out. Since this is your house I would suggest you stack the lumber and let it dry/acclimate a few weeks. If a piece twists, checks, warps take it back and get another. If you cut and hang the treated while wet it is going to shrink significantly and none of you seams will be tight. It may still twist on you.

The treating process is done using high temp high pressure. The lumber is ultra saturated. Normal moisture content is around 12-15%. The treating process can have 40% or more moisture content. It is the drying out process that causes the wood to warp due to uneven drying.

It's best to wait.

I'll probably be getting the PT wood from Lowes or HD for the reasons you mention and just because the local lumber yards are way more expensive. I wanted to use a yard but the two I went to were $280 and $310 more than the big box stores, and I only need about $2k worth of PT lumber for the frame, that's just too much to justify.

The PT lumber I've gotten from HD so far has been fine, fairly straight, some are very wet, others are dry. Amazing difference in weight between the two. It takes a while to crawl around looking for the good pieces, but if I can get them to bring down a fresh pallet, its not too time consuming. to find good ones.

Here's an inspectors 2 cents. Google DCA 6 by the American Wood Council for just about everything dealing with decks. Also Fairfax County Deck Details DCA 6 - Prescriptive Residential Deck Construction Guide
As far as a easy peasy on installing joists by yourself. Install the flange of the hanger to the band board at the house. Install 1/2 the flange of the other hanger. Put one end of the joist in the fixed end and using a ladder lift and place into the one you half nailed. That way if the joist is twisted a little you can get it into the hanger anyway. Then use either a crow bar or put a clamp on the twist and get it to fit in the hanger and nail it. Speaking of nails/screws you can only use what nails or screws that are recommended by the hanger manufacturer. No reason to let the joists dry out just nail away.... or you can order dried/treated/and dryed PT lumber for more $$
If you let an unrestrained PT joist system dry long enough they'll twist like nuts

1) I would replace the ledger fastened to the house. Looks like it was nailed (not to code) and nails are rusting. Wouldn't surprise me if there is damage behind the ledger. Use ledger locks or equivalent, rated for PT.
2) Aluminum is NOT to be used against PT lumber, it will corrode.
3) EDIT: 2x8 joists, sorry for confusion caused by me.

So I would use rubber stick-on flashing behind the new ledger, and on top of the new ledger to protect the aluminum flashing. As to the gap, I would just fill gap on top of the new decking with pvc trim board ripped to fit.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/TITE-SEAL-Self-Adhesive-Waterproof-9-in-x-33-ft-Rubberized-Asphalt-Roll-Flashing/3055549
https://www.lowes.com/pd/FastenMaster-50-Count-0-to-x-5-in-Ecoat-Hex-Drive-Structural-Wood-Screw/3294886

The ledger is just nailed in the picture I took, there are lag bolts on each side of the existing joists, however, NONE of the original hardware was galvanized or hot dipped which is a big part of all the failures. I replaced several pieces of the ledger that were questionable and will be replacing all lag bolts with LedgerLok screws. I used their structural screws in the main beams along with galvanized bolts/nuts. I put Grace Vycor flashing behind all of the ledger which actually did have some minimal amount of thin flashing but I replaced it because it was thin and didn't seem waterproof.

All of the joists are 2x8x12 PT and they will span 10' to the main beam then overhang 18". The original deck overhung 3' but they used 2x8x10 to the main beam, then sistered another 2x8x6 for the overhang. I choose to remove the sister and lose the extra 18", deck is already big enough and I didn't want to sister more joists.

I will try and take some pictures to give everyone a better idea of the whole thing.

My bad, misread 2x6 in first post.

If you are going through all the trouble of new joists, I would change the ledger. Also typically you would solid block between joists at the girder.

Good on the vycor. Get it in between any aluminum flashing, and the new wood. The new ledger will destroy aluminum flashing w/o the vycor barrier.

This should answer most questions, including alowable overhang: http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards/publications/dca/AWC-DCA62012-DeckGuide-1405.pdf

http://www.deckmagazine.com/products/materials-hardware/beyond-aluminum-flashing_o
The two most common replacements for CCA — alkaline copper quaternary (ACQ) and copper azole (CA) — contain two or three times as much copper, in a chemically more active form. When aluminum flashing contacts this copper-laden lumber, the aluminum quickly corrodes. For the majority of decks, which are framed with pressure-treated lumber, aluminum flashing just isn’t an option anymore.

Here are some of the before pictures I took with the issues:

Original deck, right before demo

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516493657.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516493688.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516493705.jpg

This was scary!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516493866.jpg

New beamhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516493966.jpg

Watch the step height at the slider. Now that I see the pic..... 8-1/4" max from top of decking to top of sill/saddle of slider(not the interior floor). If your new decking is thinner, that may be an issue.

From IRC: R311.3.1 ....... The exterior landing or floor shall not be more than 81/4 inches (210 mm) below the top of the threshold provided the door does not swing over the landing or floor.

The bounce comes from under size joist not only from the decking. 5/4" will be ok at 16 centers. You should also block off the joist mid way. 2x6 seem a bit small, agree with dad911. I replace the ledger with a 2x10 ( if you have room) to eliminate bounce. Yep, what's the span?

I (built a lot but had a contractor friend help too) just finished mine and can post pictures if you want.

I used 2x10’s on 12” centers. Due to snow I left a gap between the top of the decking and the bottom of the house siding. I also covered all of the tops of every single joist with Vycor to keep it from getting water in and rotting the joists.

Mine is about 22’ x 38’, so it’s fairly large.

I used TimberTech composite decking because the Brazilian redwood I used on my last deck is prohibitively expensive now.

With the lighting on each post and the zero maintenance aspect of it, I am very happy.

Bill

Here are some pictures of mine, my beams are significantly more substantial than yours...


New footings
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516519989.jpg

Framing

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516520100.jpg

Blocking in the posts for the railing

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516520171.jpg

Decking and railing on, it’s a bit dirty in these pictures


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516520235.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516520268.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516520293.jpg

The ones of it previous didn’t post...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516520605.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516520668.jpg

Nice! That last pic is my favorite :)

Not the orientation....the dawgy...

All of the joists and ledgers are 2x8, don't have room for bigger or else I would have gone 2x10, however according to the online calculators I should be fine. They will span 10' at the furthest then a 18" over hang. I will block all the joists and have double rim joists.

To give an idea of the old deck, I have pictures of the stairs stringers that go up to the pool deck, and they were attacked to the single rim joist with uncoated nails. All were rusted and simply pulled away during demo. Hardly a screw or nail came out in one piece, all were rusted and broke or just pulled out. Scary stuff when I have a 3 year old running around on it. My buddy putting his foot completely through a deck board was the final straw.

I liked TimberTech but, and it may be a California thing, but most composites we're more than double the SA hardwood, at least the quotes I got. If they were 100% maintenance free and no issues, I would have done it but my research said otherwise. No snow where I am so that's nice to not have that issue.

Here is one of my favorites from the original deck I found during demo... This was the worst post connection but practically every nut on the main posts were less than finger tight.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516562534.jpg

One big issue I see with that beam is, any splices are supposed to be made over a post.

I noticed that too. Why not just stick a big honking 4x on there and be done with it? which way are the floor joist running, out from the house, the same direction as the spliced joist? Is that the spliced limber the double rim joist? If so, it seem lower then the ledger. I am also concern about the drain, it will clog in no time and how will it be access for cleaning? More pics will help

Ideally, splices are to be made over a post however staggering the splices should work fine according to my research. Every 2x8 has at least one post supporting it along with it's sister board (i.e. no floating board in the beam)

The original deck had (untreated) 4x6 beams that had twisted pretty bad and from what I have read, laminated 2x8's in the staggered setup I'm using will be stronger than a 4x6 beam and have a reduced chance of twisting. It also allows me to change out single pieces if anything happens (rot, twist, etc) in the future.

The joists will run perpendicular to the beam shown, resting on top of the beam shown (2nd beam down further) and secured with hurricane ties, then cantilever over about 18". In California the hurricane ties aren't required but it will help keep everything lined up until I get the blocking up and they are cheap enough that it can't hurt to have them.

That drain is actually one of 4 in a series under the deck that can drain out around the house either direction. Luckily there is space to crawl around under the deck so I know I'll have to clear out the drains from time to time but with the skirting I'm putting around the outside of the deck, it does a decent job of keeping leaves out. It clogged the first big rain of this year and held up nicely since then.

Put the hangers on after the boards are in place. Pt boards can vary up to 1/4"

Hm, that's a good point. Might have to combine both techniques and make up a removable jig that I can place on each joist as it goes into place that spaces it correctly. Thanks

Ive been using this the past few years, to set my joists on the ledger and rim , before I install my hangers. They work great.

Ill go through half a stack of lumber to try to get consistent joist widths. Up to 2x8 is usually fairly good. Over that, the widths vary a lot. I try to avoid having to trim where they sit on the beams.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516582553.jpg

Can't really comment on the framing, some good tips above tho.

I replaced 2x6 fir decking with 1x6 Ipe over joist on 16inch centers. The new deck is very stiff, no flex is noticeable. That Ipe is very stiff, and probably close to as heavy as the 2x6 fir. Edge Fastened the decking with stainless screws thru plastic biscuits. So only had to fasten thru the deck boards at butt joints and the edge boards. Set those screws well in to allow for wood plugs.

The Ipe is very weather and bug resistant, still in good condition after ten years in place, this is on Kauai with rain exposure on about half of the deck.

Used Kumaru for interior flooring, also very hard and stiff. Just not as weather resistant as the Ipe, which is not pleasant when dealing with its dust from cutting/ sanding.

Not sure about the beautiful tiger wood, think it may be best suited for indoor application.

Would cover the top of the joist before laying the decking.

Very satisfying enjoying your new deck built with select quality materials.

Cheers Richard