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-   -   Southwest - Suck out! (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=993911)

Gogar 04-18-2018 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 10006890)
Gotta wonder if she had her seat belt on?

I imagine she could have had it on and still easily had her arms and head out the window.

I also bet that if she -didn't have it on she would've gone ahead and been all the way out the window, as Higgins has mentioned.

WPOZZZ 04-18-2018 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 10005484)
Rapid decompression is not a pretty sight.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/da...310357V2_b.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 10005530)
Hawaiian Air

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 10005542)
Also a 737 btw.

What happened is not supposed to happen. Turbofan and turbojet manufacturers spend a lot of time and money designing and testing to prevent what is called a rotorburst, which is a catastrophic engine failure that could in theory throw shrapnel towards the fuselage. The engine casing must show that it can wholly contain a catastrophic engine failure by test, there are some pretty cool videos on http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/993911-southwest-suck-out-4.htmlYouTube of grenading turbofans. Critical flight systems and in many cases the fuselage are also required to be reinforced in this area of the aircraft. I'll be very curious to hear the root cause, which may take months to determine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcar (Post 10005552)
Hawaiian Air 737 (above) was a unique situation...

Flights are very short, island to island, so a lot more take-offs and landings per hour of flight than a 'normal' plane. They calculate age of planes by hours flown partially, but did not really factor in the large increase in landings and takeoffs (pressurizing / unpressurizing) as extra wear on the airframe.

Salt air environment: made the crack, when it formed, propagate faster.

A passenger on that plane saw a crack in the skin by the entry door when they boarded bud did not say anything. That's where it failed; it just peeled off like a scab.

I think only a stew standing in the aisle was lost, another almost; she grabbed the arm of a seat and passengers held onto her.


This was unknown until the British Comet jets started flying commercially in the 50's... they started falling apart in the sky after only 1,000 hours or so... do a search... scary.

That was actually an Aloha Airlines flight, not Hawaiian. A flilght attendant did get sucked out of that plane, and amazingly, was the only casualty.

RIP CB Lansing.

https://www.historyandheadlines.com/...-1-768x464.jpg

GH85Carrera 04-18-2018 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey (Post 10006426)
+1 on all.

The stand out IMO was approach ATC. That guy was ON IT. Nicely done sir.

And well done Capt. for getting down and finding a suitable runway ASAP. That was engine failure @ FL325 to PHL vector to parking brake in 20 minutes. Outstanding.

Good job all and RIP to the lost soul...

She reacted just like she was supposed to. Calm, reasoned and capable. Any pilot that gets hysterical should be fired on the spot.

Listen to the cockpit recording for the flight that hit birds and had to ditch in the Hudson river. No time for any chit chat or any unnecessary talk. Listen to the actual recording of the Apollo 13 astronauts. They are in a damaged space ship traveling away from earth and shutting down the flight systems in a calm and reasoned manner. No yelling, not blaming others, just do the job at hand.

Professional all.

sand_man 04-18-2018 12:34 PM

I never knew that they actually refer to the passengers as "souls" in an "official" capacity, until I heard the flight recording.

mreid 04-18-2018 12:37 PM

Souls also includes the crew.

sammyg2 04-18-2018 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera (Post 10006938)
She reacted just like she was supposed to. Calm, reasoned and capable. Any pilot that gets hysterical should be fired on the spot.

Listen to the cockpit recording for the flight that hit birds and had to ditch in the Hudson river. No time for any chit chat or any unnecessary talk. Listen to the actual recording of the Apollo 13 astronauts. They are in a damaged space ship traveling away from earth and shutting down the flight systems in a calm and reasoned manner. No yelling, not blaming others, just do the job at hand.

Professional all.

Odyssey this is Houston: We copy, you're venting. :D

tcar 04-18-2018 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ (Post 10006930)
That was actually an Aloha Airlines flight, not Hawaiian. A flilght attendant did get sucked out of that plane, and amazingly, was the only casualty.

RIP CB Lansing.

Oops... can't believe I missed that. I had a friend who was a stewardess for Aloha at the time and was worried about her...

flatbutt 04-18-2018 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera (Post 10006938)
Listen to the cockpit recording for the flight that hit birds and had to ditch in the Hudson river. No time for any chit chat or any unnecessary talk. .

Two words from Sully still resonate with me..."my aircraft". The ultimate in taking responsibility.

sammyg2 04-18-2018 02:18 PM

United airlines flight 811, February 1989:
I remember the pilot offering to fly it back for repairs even with the giant hole in it's side (after they repaired the engines).
The plane was repaired and put back in service, until it went into storage in the 2000.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524089948.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524089948.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1524089948.jpg




Quote:

Flight 811 took off from Honolulu International Airport at 01:52 local time, with 337 passengers and 18 crew members on board.

During the climb, the crew made preparations to detour around thunderstorms along the aircraft's track; the Captain anticipated turbulence and kept the passenger seatbelt sign lit.
The plane had been flying for 17 minutes, as it was passing from 22,000 feet (6,700 m) to 23,000 feet (7,000 m), when the flight crew heard a loud "thump" which shook the aircraft.
A second and a half later, the forward cargo door blew off. The door swung out with such force that it passed its normal stop and slammed into the side of the fuselage, bursting the fuselage open. Pressure differentials and aerodynamic forces caused the cabin floor to cave in, and 10 seats (G and H of rows 8 through 12) were ejected from the cabin. All 8 passengers seated in these locations were killed (seats 8G and 12G were unoccupied), as was the passenger in seat 9F.
A gaping hole was left in the aircraft, through which a flight attendant in the business-class cabin was almost blown out of the aircraft. Passengers and crew members saw her clinging to a seat leg and were able to pull her back inside the cabin, although she was severely injured. Senior flight attendant Laura Brentlinger hung on to the steps leading to the upper deck, and was dangling from them when the decompression occurred.

The pilots initially believed that a bomb had gone off inside the airplane, as this accident happened just two months after Pan Am Flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland. They began an emergency descent in order to reach an altitude where the air was breathable, while also performing a 180-degree left turn to fly back to Honolulu.
The explosion damaged components of the on-board emergency oxygen supply system, as it was primarily located in the forward cargo sidewall area, just aft of the cargo door.

The debris ejected from the airplane during the explosive decompression damaged the Number 3 and 4 engines.
Engine 3 was experiencing heavy vibration, no N1 reading, and a low EGT and EPR, so the crew shut it down.
At 02:20, an emergency was declared and the crew began dumping fuel to reduce the aircraft's landing weight.
The N1 reading of engine number 4 soon fell to almost zero, its EGT reading was high, and it was emitting flames, so they shut it down as well.
Some of the explosively ejected debris damaged the right wing's leading edge, dented the horizontal stabilizer on that side, and damaged the vertical stabilizer.

During the descent, Captain Cronin ordered Flight Engineer Thomas to tell the flight attendants to prepare for an emergency landing, but Thomas was unable to contact them through the intercom. He asked the captain for permission to go down to find out what was happening, and Cronin agreed. Thomas saw severe damage immediately upon leaving the cockpit; the aircraft's skin was peeled off in some areas on the upper deck, revealing the frames and stringers. As he went down to the lower deck, the magnitude of the damage became apparent as he saw the large hole in the side of the cabin. Thomas returned to the cockpit and reported that a large section of fuselage was open aft of the Number 1 exit door. He concluded that it was probably a bomb and that, considering the damage, it would be unwise to exceed the airplane's stall speed by more than a small margin.

As the airplane neared the airport, the landing gear was extended. The flaps could only be partially deployed as a result of damage sustained following the decompression.
This necessitated a higher than normal landing speed of around 190–200 knots (350–370 km/h).
Captain Cronin was able to bring the plane to a halt, without overrunning the runway. 14 minutes had elapsed since the emergency was declared. All the remaining passengers and flight attendants exited the plane in less than 45 seconds. Every flight attendant suffered some injury during the evacuation, ranging from scratches to a dislocated shoulder.

Despite extensive air and sea searches, no remains were found at sea of the nine victims lost in flight.
Multiple small body fragments and pieces of clothing were found in the Number 3 engine, indicating that at least one victim was ejected from the fuselage into the front of the engine, but it was not known whether the fragments were from one or more victims.
wiki

Bob Kontak 04-18-2018 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera (Post 10006938)
Listen to the actual recording of the Apollo 13 astronauts. They are in a damaged space ship traveling away from earth and shutting down the flight systems in a calm and reasoned manner. No yelling, not blaming others, just do the job at hand.

Professional all.

I wish Bart Sibrel could have been on that flight.

1:30 in.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HlbYOKSSaIE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

tcar 04-18-2018 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatbutt (Post 10007057)
Two words from Sully still resonate with me..."my aircraft". The ultimate in taking responsibility.

I agree!

That's actually standard language; proper cockpit protocol.
This is a standard phrase that is said to avoid confusion.

Sully, the Captain, was taking over from the First Officer, who performed the TO.
The FO should respond "your aircraft" to acknowledge he understands.

"My aircraft" and "your aircraft" might be said several times during any normal flight.

It avoids confusion that might have happened in the past, if, for instance, someone said to the other in a noisy cockpit "Take it", "I'll fly now", or some other phrase.

greglepore 04-18-2018 04:33 PM

I'm floored by the way professional pilots react to pressure. I do wonder how long it takes the shaking to stop once the endorphins wear off.

Chapeau, Captain.

mreid 04-18-2018 04:39 PM

The deceased was wearing her seatbelt. Makes it a little more scary.

pete3799 04-18-2018 05:20 PM

Just saw this on the local news.
RIP Jennifer
Woman killed on Southwest flight grew up in Vermont

Bob Kontak 04-18-2018 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreid (Post 10007220)
The deceased was wearing her seatbelt. Makes it a little more scary.

Probably 500 mph ground speed minimum? More or less airspeed.

Her head was right there at the window. Makes me shudder.

tcar 04-18-2018 06:26 PM

They're finding some engine casing parts... they were on radar falling-floating down about 70 m from Pittsburgh after the event

tcar 04-18-2018 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mreid (Post 10007220)
The deceased was wearing her seatbelt. Makes it a little more scary.

Died of blunt force trauma.
Probably felt nothing.

flatbutt 04-18-2018 06:29 PM

Never letting my grandkids sit by a window behind the wing again.

MMiller 04-18-2018 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (Post 10006890)
Gotta wonder if she had her seat belt on?

I was curious about that as well..

This all hits too close to home. The passenger who was lost was a local girl known by a few people I know...so they are a bit upset to say the least.

My Dad was a career ATC so hearing those professionals at work reminded me of him and his coolness under fire.

WPOZZZ 04-18-2018 10:55 PM

Air pressure can do all kinds of things.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/28TIyWdfxxc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

tabs 04-18-2018 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 10005498)
Uh, no - the size of the window is purely a structural consideration. Like I said earlier, even a football lineman will get blown out through that window. Quite easily. Won't be pretty, but he will "fit".

No made to fit.

supdaf 04-19-2018 01:05 AM

oddly, the window shatters and creates a large hole in the fuselage. the outflow valve that normally controls pressurization in the cabin goes completely closed. it is trying to maintain pressure in the cabin. the valve in this case will most likely remain closed until switched to manual and opened. The two folks in the front of the airplane now have a bunch of things to do and that outflow valve is low on the priority scale. don't know if it is on the checklist.

this unfortunate lady now kinda plugs the large hole in the fuselage. I would guess that this also kinda makes her situation worse. the cabin is still being pumped with air from the remaining engine.

makes me want to drive...

which, as said before, carries more risk of injury.

onewhippedpuppy 04-19-2018 03:55 AM

Modern aircraft pressurization controllers are complex computer controlled devices with a lot of automation and emergency modes. I never spent much time working pressurization or ECS systems but I’m pretty sure the system isn’t that “dumb”. Even with a person partially plugging the hole it’s not going to re-pressurize the aircraft. I’ve participated in pressurization tests of new and modded aircraft, even little stuff like a damaged door seal can keep the fuselage from reaching the correct delta p.

supdaf 04-19-2018 05:48 AM

I don't think it was going to repressurize but like I said it was working against her. I do not think a person could completely "plug" the hole. may not have mattered at that point.

URY914 04-19-2018 07:03 AM

Have seen the pictures on line of the passengers wearing the drop down O2 masks incorrectly? None of them had the mask over their noses. :rolleyes:

Seahawk 04-19-2018 07:18 AM

Ask and ye shall receive:

Quote:

Originally Posted by widebody911 (Post 10007605)


stomachmonkey 04-19-2018 07:18 AM

This may sound horrible and it kind of is but I was sitting in Terminal A, SouthWests terminal, at LGA yesterday waiting for my flight.

They came on the PA and announced the flight would be a bit delayed as they had some extra cleaning to do.

In my mind I just pictured gibs all over the inside of the plane.

Godspeed to that poor woman.

sand_man 04-19-2018 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914 (Post 10007780)
Have seen the pictures on line of the passengers wearing the drop down O2 masks incorrectly? None of them had the mask over their noses. :rolleyes:

I noticed this too and wondered to myself if I had it wrong! LOlz!

Tidybuoy 04-19-2018 09:17 AM

I'm always amazed when I see passengers undo their seatbelts as soon as the light goes off. I always stay belted unless I have to use the restroom. It's just not that uncomfortable to keep the seat belt on.

flatbutt 04-19-2018 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy (Post 10007926)
I'm always amazed when I see passengers undo their seatbelts as soon as the light goes off. I always stay belted unless I have to use the restroom. It's just not that uncomfortable to keep the seat belt on.

This may be a result of the safety record airlines have. Most people have only had a bus ride in the sky. But I'm with you. I've seen flight attendants get slammed into the cabin ceiling during "unscheduled" descents. I've also done more than one paint shaker ride across the English Channel between Gatwick and Le Havre Octeville.

sand_man 04-19-2018 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy (Post 10007926)
I'm always amazed when I see passengers undo their seatbelts as soon as the light goes off. I always stay belted unless I have to use the restroom. It's just not that uncomfortable to keep the seat belt on.

I also stay belted the entire time. And I can count on maybe two fingers the number of times I've ever gotten up to use the lavatory.

onewhippedpuppy 04-19-2018 09:55 AM

I don't worry about flying or driving, but I wear my seatbelt for both. I was on probably close to 200 flights in 2017 and didn't have a single incident worse than normal turbulence, but why wouldn't you?

tcar 04-19-2018 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMiller (Post 10007394)
I was curious about that as well....

You're wondering about seat belt...???

Several posts had already said that she WAS wearing her seatbelt.

tcar 04-19-2018 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey (Post 10007790)
This may sound horrible and it kind of is but I was sitting in Terminal A, SouthWests terminal, at LGA yesterday waiting for my flight.

They came on the PA and announced the flight would be a bit delayed as they had some extra cleaning to do.

In my mind I just pictured gibs all over the inside of the plane.

Guess you're trying (too hard) to be funny and not succeeding ...

That plane won't fly again for weeks, or months.

stomachmonkey 04-19-2018 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcar (Post 10008049)
Guess you're trying (too hard) to be funny and not succeeding ...

That plane won't fly again for weeks, or months.

Nope, not trying to be funny.

It's exactly what went through my mind as soon as i heard it and the point was it bothered me that I had that thought.

Someone's wife, mother, child, friend, died.

There is nothing humorous about that.

scottmandue 04-19-2018 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sand_man (Post 10007947)
I also stay belted the entire time. And I can count on maybe two fingers the number of times I've ever gotten up to use the lavatory.

I am cursed with a tiny bladder so on long flights I often have to get up once or twice to use the head, however I also always keep my seat-belt on when seated.

I used to fly a couple times a year for work and have experienced some pretty bad turbulence.

mreid 04-19-2018 01:00 PM

I was out with friends a couple weeks ago. One is a trauma surgeon. He said, “never get in your car or fly with a full bladder.” Of course, I needed details. His simple reply, “the seatbelt will rupture your bladder in an accident. What might have been minor is now a big deal that will take months to heal if ever.” That was enough for me.

recycled sixtie 04-19-2018 01:18 PM

I think the captain and copilot did a remarkable job in bringing the aircraft safely back.
My heart goes out to the deceased lady's husband and children.

sand_man 04-19-2018 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914 (Post 10007780)
Have seen the pictures on line of the passengers wearing the drop down O2 masks incorrectly? None of them had the mask over their noses. :rolleyes:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/misused-masks-highlight-challenges-of-preparing-passengers-for-accidents-1524173260

Brown747 04-20-2018 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co (Post 10006087)
Yep. Nobody since 2009 has died in a commercial incident including commuters.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/data/Pages/paxfatal.aspx
VS cars in the US. 110 a day in 2017
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/02/16/480956.htm

Not quite true. There has been no passengers lost since the Colgan 2009 accident but sadly there has been loss of life in US commercial aviation.




Independent Pilots Association Advisory: Southwest 1380 is NOT the first U.S. airline fatality since 2009; UPS 1354 in 2013

Release Date: 4/18/2018 1:54:39 PM
LOUISVILLE, Ky., April 18, 2018 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The death resulting from an engine failure on Southwest Flt. 1380 yesterday is, sadly, not the first casualty at a U.S. airline since Colgan Air Flt. 3407 in 2009. Tragically, on August 14, 2013, United Parcel Service Flt. 1354 crashed on approach to Birmingham-Shuttleworth International Airport, resulting in the deaths of two crewmembers, Captain Cerea Beal and First Officer Shanda Fanning.

UPS Airlines is the world's largest airline by destinations served at 720. The next closest is FedEx with 375 destinations served. Data provided by The World's Largest Airlines - Airport Spotting Blog dated December 2017.


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