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-   -   First 911 questions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=1001915)

colingreene 08-23-2022 08:04 PM

As I mentioned before I had some grinding going into 3rd and occasionally first.
With what I found earlier the first second issues would make a lot of sense.
Third however could only be accounted for by a worn synchro band and dog teeth.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.JPG


So I had some spare good used parts out of a 901 gear box that works for gears 3-5
And with all of the new parts for the 1-2 cluster I was ready to put it back together. Here's the mains haft still mostly together but removed from the trans.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.JPG

The main bearing race was loose however not loose enough that it was terminal, I pressed it back in and then used sleeve lock to hold it there.
I know that this is not really the accepted solution but for the time being and budget at hand it would have to do. That being said I accept the risk, i also know that the motor I am building/did build will destroy this mag gearbox if i treat it harshly.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.JPG

With some quality advice from Frank and use of a actual torque wrench, something that was lacking during the last assembly the gearbox went together.
I do have to say that before I began taking this transmission apart I was very apprehensive about my ability to tear the gear box down repair it and have it work. However with help from Frank and being careful it all went way better than I would have anticipated.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.JPG

When I bought the car I previously mentioned that the brakes left a lot to be desired.
I had gone through the rear brakes as that was a easy solution.
The fronts obviously on a 911 leave you with more choices.
3.0 inch struts or 3.5. and then from there what calipers. I had found and decided to restore a pair of Bilstein front spindles.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.jpg

Since I also have a 914 that I am building a 6 cylinder for and really like the whole idea of a GT build I moved my Late S calipers to the 911 and bought a set of Early S calipers for the 914 to be more period correct. Because you know that's important.
It made sense in my head....
However not before I tried a Boxster caliper on another strut i had floating around. During the time i was doing this (2019) I worked for a private shop that had extra parts around allowing me to do that. You may have noticed some of the cars in the back of the pictures.
I have not ruled out using these in the future however.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1661313617.JPG

After this we got back to the engine build but that will likely be another post.

colingreene 10-21-2022 09:38 PM

This was back in 2019, At my old job in California. I needed to re assemble the motor before I moved to Mn for another job. (That I actually no longer have) wild I know.

Either way one of the unfun things that we found during the inspection of the motor was that the crank was ground undersized, I don't actually mind this other than the cost of main bearings is much higher. No obvious reason was found for this but it is what it is. Something I have found myself saying a lot over the years. I may also mention we checked all this out while we watched the 24 hours of lemans and ate steak and eggs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666416904.JPG

We also noticed that as the bearings moved back towards the flywheel the clearances opened up. This indicated to us that the motor had been driven quite hard.
After speaking the the previous and original owner he confirmed that the car was used quite hard.

He bought the car new from Beverly hills Porsche after being goaded by friends that his targa was a "Girls car" I don't personally like targas but that's not how i would describe them. Either way He bought the car and drove it a bit but still had the hankering for more performance. he later had someone A shop I think, put a turbocharger on the 2.7. Honestly I wish I saw that. Everyone here likely knows what a bad idea that was. This did actually explain why in place of a clock it had a boost gauge.
Several times he lost the motor via piston failure or whatever else. Eventually he grew tired of all of this back and forth with the motor failures and paid the shop he used what he called "a large sum of money" to build him something reliable. and what that was is what eventually wound up in the car that I detailed earlier. He ultimately never drove the car much due to the motor failures and he also mentioned overheating. This leads me to believe that the car really does only have 42 ish thousand miles on it since new.

He sold the car to a flipper and i bought the car from the flipper.

Once the crank was inspected as mentioned above we moved on to picking what oil pump to run. Ultimately As you can see I chose to run my 930 oil pump, replacing the SC four rib that the motor had in it when we tore it down.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666416904.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666416904.jpg

Dropping the IMS and oil pump in with new Iwiss racing chains.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666416904.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666416904.jpg

Case prepped for assembly.

colingreene 11-08-2022 05:44 PM

Once you reach the point of laying down case sealant you dont have much time to stop and take pictures.
Plus I dont know how interesting this is to anyone since obviously this has been covered dozens and dozens of times by now.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.jpg


Here is the case together
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.jpg


Next up was setting up the deck height. when we originally took this motor apart just about everything we found inside of it was suspect so in order to be able to feel even remotely comfortable everything needed to be checked on. These are 100mm Mahle motorsport pistons that I think are no longer made so I also wanted to not destroy those.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.jpg

here is a shot of the 100mm cyls re plated. the car sat for a long long time so the cyls have some pitting damage that millennium could not fully get to go away.
They however remained unconcerned about this and the pistons checked easily within spec leading me to believe the history i had received from the previous owner was to be believed.
the car always ran exceptionally hot so he drove it sparingly. The car really only has like 40k on it overall.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.jpg

In order to clean the crowns of the piston I aluminum taped the crap out of them then then vapor blasted them clean.


Here's a shot of the cyl heads being assembled into the towers getting ready to go onto the cyls.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667961709.jpg

colingreene 11-08-2022 06:04 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667962781.jpg

Primed and ready to drop on. Unfortunately late in the game we realized that while someone decked the heads to provide a nice sealing surface for the tops of the cyls they neglected to maintain the distance between the surface around the bottom of the heads. It made any hope for sealing the heads impossible. This meant that we had to hand surface them on a deck plate till they fit. I forget the exact measurement but it was enough I don't want to do it again. However it was some bizarre foreshadowing for the next flat six i wound up building for my 914.
below is the case with everything put together ready to go. Hopefully i wont have any leaks. You also may have noticed that I upgraded my chain holder from the last post.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667962781.JPG

time to torque.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667962781.JPG

Here's part of our work area, yes its a pallet held up by a forklift also known as the best engine crane ever.
Kind of a neat picture I thought I would include for fun.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667962781.jpg


Trans getting close to being finished and closed up at this point also. I really was concerned about my ability to rebuild the transmission but it actually turned out great.
I re freshed all the bushings in the factory shift linkage and its working very well at this point.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1667962781.JPG

porschedude996 11-08-2022 07:51 PM

What else did you find in the trans?

colingreene 11-08-2022 09:00 PM

mostly just abused dog gears and tired synchros.
The main bearing being loose in the case as standard feature on these.
All of the first/second hardware short of the gears themselves was replaced.
I also made sure that things were torqued to spec, something that was not done before and it seems to be doing well. I do still have a bit of gear whine in 5th but nothing compared to what it was.

porschedude996 11-08-2022 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingreene (Post 11842902)
mostly just abused dog gears and tired synchros.
The main bearing being loose in the case as standard feature on these.
All of the first/second hardware short of the gears themselves was replaced.
I also made sure that things were torqued to spec, something that was not done before and it seems to be doing well. I do still have a bit of gear whine in 5th but nothing compared to what it was.

Thanks, I’m looking into an overhaul soon on my 83 SC. Fifth gear is where my cars whines the worst.

colingreene 11-08-2022 09:35 PM

Well if you are planning on doing it yourself you will need a few special tools but its not the end of the world.
If not and you are on a budget I may have someone that can help you out (its not me)
Keep in mind that if you do need to replace the dog teeth on first or second you will have to go to the updated asymmetrical dog teeth the later cars have. Not a big deal but it costs some money.
if your 83 has any extra power I would probably recommend adding a limited slip differential. I do have an extra wavetrac hanging around.
however your problem may be as simple as a loose nut like mine was.
Its not difficult to inspect and diagnose, its just the special tools i mentioned earlier.

I guess Ill keep posting the engine build pictures ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

chrisbalich 11-09-2022 04:45 AM

Absolutely keep posting photos.
Some of us live for them.

porschedude996 11-09-2022 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingreene (Post 11842910)
Well if you are planning on doing it yourself you will need a few special tools but its not the end of the world.
If not and you are on a budget I may have someone that can help you out (its not me)
Keep in mind that if you do need to replace the dog teeth on first or second you will have to go to the updated asymmetrical dog teeth the later cars have. Not a big deal but it costs some money.
if your 83 has any extra power I would probably recommend adding a limited slip differential. I do have an extra wavetrac hanging around.
however your problem may be as simple as a loose nut like mine was.
Its not difficult to inspect and diagnose, its just the special tools i mentioned earlier.

I guess Ill keep posting the engine build pictures ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Please list the tools. Also would you PM me about the LSD you have.

colingreene 11-09-2022 07:19 PM

https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD721T225/synchro-remover-915345-901-all.html

This would be the tool used to pull the dog teeth off of 3-5. but you will need a large sturdy set of circlip pliers, leather gloves and some safety squints because those guys are on there tight and and slippery when covered in oil.
You can also consider any gearing changes you may want when you are in there. I chose to not mess with any of it.
The tool for 1-2 is different. I have access to the tools through friends.
That said if you want to set pinion to ring gear you will need a VW 385 and that is not cheap.

porschedude996 11-09-2022 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingreene (Post 11843939)
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD721T225/synchro-remover-915345-901-all.html

This would be the tool used to pull the dog teeth off of 3-5. but you will need a large sturdy set of circlip pliers, leather gloves and some safety squints because those guys are on there tight and and slippery when covered in oil.
You can also consider any gearing changes you may want when you are in there. I chose to not mess with any of it.
The tool for 1-2 is different. I have access to the tools through friends.
That said if you want to set pinion to ring gear you will need a VW 385 and that is not cheap.

Thanks for the insight. I think I’ll employ someone who has the tools to do the job. It makes no economic sense to buy the tooling for one transmission overhaul.

Bill Douglas 11-09-2022 09:39 PM

The work area is so clean and orderly. Very professional.

Whenever I do the most minor of jobs I have tools scattered all over the place with oil and grease on the floor.

And of course, congrat's on the build.

colingreene 11-22-2022 07:08 PM

This build looks like a bomb went off compared to the current one I am doing for my 914.
Id link that but some asshat hacked 914 world.

colingreene 11-28-2022 07:07 PM

here is a picture of me sticking the heads onto the motor.
Honestly its one of the coolest pictures I have been in. guess I have a low bar.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669694850.jpg

And since the motor was pretty much together and closed up shortly after that here's a shot of the motor. Its actually very satisfying to see it together again.
Since this was my first full tear it apart of a 911 motor it made me somewhat uncomfortable.
Obviously once i got that out of the way i felt a lot better doing subsequent ones.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669694850.JPG

the thing about twin plugging a motor is its a lot more than just drilling some extra holes and adding a distributor. I needed a way to mount a second CDI box.
I'm sure that at this point you can figure out that I am somewhat fussy about how things look and operate. If you haven't, I am that way.
In order to add the box a custom mount had to be made, here it is all mounted up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669694850.jpg

With the cams timed and set up I was able to see a visual representation of overlap.
The light you can see is coming into the chamber is from that overlap. I found this to be extremely cool.
Also here's a shot of the valve hardware.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669694850.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669694850.jpg

colingreene 11-29-2022 06:56 PM

Also as mentioned about twin plugging its full of fun little things you never think about till you are in fact doing it.
Unfortunately being new to that meant that I had several complications in doing that.
One of those was the air duct for the heater. The larger distributor wanted to occupy the same space the heater duct did.
Little bit of trimming and some pattern making means we came up with something that fit.
Luckily the distributor cap is not held on by the spring clips but screws. this means that i could minimize the amount needed to be taken out of the duct.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669780476.jpg

I had some Carbon laying around from another project so thats what I used since it was naturally black and bound to blend in. Truthfully I have 0 affinity for carbon fiber other than its utility as a material. aesthetically it does very little for me. thats why this could be more beautiful or i could have modeled the entire part and made a tool to create the whole modified part out of carbon, maybe in the future.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669780476.jpg


The next problem would be that the timing chain box needed to be opened up for the spark plug wire end and so would the rear part of the tin for the rear lower spark plug on the left side. And a pass through for the lower six wires.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669780476.JPG

The shroud was in rough shape, I chose to just re paint it after fixing its defects.
Time has proven that the heat is a bit much for it so I may have to come up with a new solution but for now its fine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669780476.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669780476.JPG

A lot of the wiring harness was damaged so a majority of it had to be repaired or replaced. Also The usual routing all of the wires and cutting them to length.
I routed them over the fan as shown and made some clamps in order to hold them running over the fan. it came out fairly well i thought.
Later I attached the coils to the engine support bar 964 style. Not sure if i have any pictures of that around. Once all of this was sorted out the motor was ready to be put up into the car.
That will probably be the next post.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669780476.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1669780476.jpg

colingreene 12-04-2022 01:33 PM

Once all of the large number of small issues were solved it was time to get the motor ready to go into the car.
I opted to keep the pressure plate and flywheel but put a fresh disk into it.
The flywheel was surfaced however.

To put the motor into the car the carbs were removed. I also did some just general cleaning
and installed a new back pad.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670193108.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670193108.JPG

the transmission was then attached and we lowered the car onto the motor on the table.
Ultimately I wound up blocking the motor up so the nose of the gearbox would walk into the shift rod opening.
and I chose to attach the exhaust later.

Next up I plan on replacing all the front bushings since the shock uprights and brakes have been restored and replaced up there
Im not sure how much enthusiasm i have for continuing to post updates however.

GG Allin 12-05-2022 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingreene (Post 11864487)
.............Im not sure how much enthusiasm i have for continuing to post updates however.

I have found them useful, thanks.

Tremelune 12-05-2022 10:17 AM

The Internet is read-once, read-many by several orders of magnitude. Rest assured your post will be appreciated by someone, even if it takes years...

colingreene 01-10-2023 10:31 PM

So I have mentioned a few times in passing that I also have a 914.
A few years ago I was given the chance to drive a 2.4E powered 914 so obviously I had to have one.

Anyway I have had this 2.7L core that I had been piling parts for and Finally put together.
I built it out as a bit of a hot rod.

92mm bore making it a 2.8
DC60 cams
10.5:1 compression CP Pistons
Ported heads
weber 40s
964 oil pump.
Here's some pictures of it fully assembled.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg

My 914 is in Minnesota and my 911 and this motor are in California. So I swapped the 2.8 into the 911.
Luckily for me I have friends with a lift and all the other critical tools for swapping motors. So, Out with the 3.3

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg

and after some parts transfer in with the 2.8. I was unwilling to recut my spark plug wires and fuss with the distributor positioning so the spark plug wires are not as neat as they could be. but overall it went together just fine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg

The 3.3 had been doing some weird leaking stuff like from the rocker shafts and smoking a bit.
I originally had EBS do the cyls for me and provide rings for the motor. The motor was using a ton of oil. I spoke to EBS a bunch about the oil consumption and the ring package.
Worryingly during one of those conversations they said "Why do you have those oil rings" "you should not have those" Referring to the one piece cast iron oil rings. That is what they sold me.
Either way the motor is out and pulled down to a short block.
The rings show signs of never seating and the cyls are glazed
I sent the cyls off today to have them check it out and see if we can come up with a solution together.
I also had oil on the back of the intake valves.
The case its self never showed any signs of leaking so ill be leaving that alone.


with the motor pulled and torn down I have found some other worrying things id like to solve. Like this below.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg

Really what's weird is even if it consumed tons of oil it always hauled ass. i am looking forward to getting it fixed and it running better.
As much as all of this sometimes makes me want to pull my hair out I constantly think about what makes me do all of this. and the picture below is really it.
Being able to go out and treat myself to a little vacation whenever I want either by myself or with friends.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg

wrxnofx 01-11-2023 08:43 AM

Where in MN is your 914 located? How often do you come back? It would be awesome to hook up for a beer or check out your 914.

Mixed76 01-11-2023 10:17 AM

Colin,

Very nice builds. Apologies for no comments I've been away from pelican for a long time.

Cool to see the 100mm cylinders with bolt holes and sealing surfaces in the right places vs using 964 or 993 cylinders.

Stock SC rods in the 3.3?

How's the 3.3 powerband with those cams, and did they require heavier valve springs?

Best regards

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Mixed76 01-11-2023 11:20 AM

Seems the leakage around the cylinder heads might be related to the resurfacing work you discovered?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

colingreene 01-11-2023 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxnofx (Post 11893925)
Where in MN is your 914 located? How often do you come back? It would be awesome to hook up for a beer or check out your 914.

More or less minneapolis, so just north of you.

colingreene 01-17-2023 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixed76 (Post 11894034)
Colin,

Very nice builds. Apologies for no comments I've been away from pelican for a long time.

Cool to see the 100mm cylinders with bolt holes and sealing surfaces in the right places vs using 964 or 993 cylinders.

Stock SC rods in the 3.3?

How's the 3.3 powerband with those cams, and did they require heavier valve springs?

Best regards

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

yes its stock rods from a 3.0, with some ARP bolts in them.
Now that its apart im considering putting nicer rods in it but currently not being employed is slowing that down.

I do have Aasco valve springs and retainers. the powerband is actually really nice to drive. it will drive around just fine but it rips up top.

Here is some of what I had found during tear down.
The chambers are really full of oil and the pistons are covered as well.
Another area for concern to me is these lower spark plug seats. It seems impossible for it to seal with only having a partial seal cut there. I was assured by two engine building experts that this is common and many engines have been built this way. The only way to remedy it would be "laser welding" Ill see what the rest of everyone here says and what my machine shop seems to think is possible.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

The cyls have been sent back to EBS in order to give them a look at the cyls and the rings to potentially determine the cause of the oil use. heres what the pistons looked like when removed.
Its pretty nasty stuff. Im honestly impressed the motor ran as well as it did if at all considering the oil volume it was consuming.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

The 2.8 is in and running well so far. I have only been able to put about 150 miles on it so far however.
A friend drove it and seemed to also approve of it. As you can see as i mentioned later about fan and alternator depths it has a partially re finished fan assembly in there.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

However back to the 3.3 I found some wear on the bores of the pistons where the wrist pins ride that have given me some concerns. ill be having the machine shop check that out for me as i dont have the tools to be able to measure it and check it out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

Also while the 2.8 was being built i re finished the fan housing fan and alternator. however the alternator still makes bearing noise. not thrilled about that after the size of that bill. This was also about the time that I found out that the depth on the fan ring/alternator combo was not the same so i could not use it without re wiring the alternator or so i thought. I was in a hurry you know.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.JPG

I also noticed that I am missing one of these wing bolts? for the electronics cover so if anyone has one of those I really could use one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

Mixed76 01-18-2023 05:24 AM

I'm no expert. Those deposits look like combustion, maybe not oil?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

colingreene 01-18-2023 09:19 AM

It was using a quart every 160 miles. So it’s definitely unburned oil

Mixed76 01-18-2023 10:49 AM

Truly an impressive oil consumption rate. I would have run it dry at that rate.

Also, I should have remembered that from your post just above.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

jdmsolberg 03-03-2023 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingreene (Post 11893637)
As much as all of this sometimes makes me want to pull my hair out I constantly think about what makes me do all of this. and the picture below is really it.
Being able to go out and treat myself to a little vacation whenever I want either by myself or with friends.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1673422260.jpg

This is what its all about ;)

porschedude996 03-03-2023 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colingreene (Post 11899562)
yes its stock rods from a 3.0, with some ARP bolts in them.
Now that its apart im considering putting nicer rods in it but currently not being employed is slowing that down.

I do have Aasco valve springs and retainers. the powerband is actually really nice to drive. it will drive around just fine but it rips up top.

Here is some of what I had found during tear down.
The chambers are really full of oil and the pistons are covered as well.
Another area for concern to me is these lower spark plug seats. It seems impossible for it to seal with only having a partial seal cut there. I was assured by two engine building experts that this is common and many engines have been built this way. The only way to remedy it would be "laser welding" Ill see what the rest of everyone here says and what my machine shop seems to think is possible.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

The cyls have been sent back to EBS in order to give them a look at the cyls and the rings to potentially determine the cause of the oil use. heres what the pistons looked like when removed.
Its pretty nasty stuff. Im honestly impressed the motor ran as well as it did if at all considering the oil volume it was consuming.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

The 2.8 is in and running well so far. I have only been able to put about 150 miles on it so far however.
A friend drove it and seemed to also approve of it. As you can see as i mentioned later about fan and alternator depths it has a partially re finished fan assembly in there.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

However back to the 3.3 I found some wear on the bores of the pistons where the wrist pins ride that have given me some concerns. ill be having the machine shop check that out for me as i dont have the tools to be able to measure it and check it out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

Also while the 2.8 was being built i re finished the fan housing fan and alternator. however the alternator still makes bearing noise. not thrilled about that after the size of that bill. This was also about the time that I found out that the depth on the fan ring/alternator combo was not the same so i could not use it without re wiring the alternator or so i thought. I was in a hurry you know.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.JPG

I also noticed that I am missing one of these wing bolts? for the electronics cover so if anyone has one of those I really could use one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1674013072.jpg

I got two from our host.

Link: https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=900-029-102-02-OEM

$4.74 each

colingreene 03-03-2023 08:07 AM

Update on this without too many pictures unfortunately.

I've removed the pistons and cyls and heads to be sent out to the respective vendors.

The heads have gone to someone different this time.
The report I have received back from them is that while the guides were replaced the valves were not.

here is what they told me.

Disassemble, Clean, Inspect & Evaluate 1980 911-SC Heads. (
Guides have been replaced recently. But the intake guides show
some wear and the Ex. guides were never honed to proper clearance
and are actually Way too tight in the middle. Some less than
.024mm between the Ex. valve stem and the guide. Very surprised
none of them stuck. All guides can be reused once honed to proper
clearance. Intake guides are only about .02mm bigger than spec in
spots. This low mileage wear in the intakes was caused by the
Intake valves not being replaced. Some are taper worn on the stems
by as much as .154mm or .006". Intake valves should have been
replaced! They are Junk! Ex. Valves May be OK to reused once
ground and polished! Seats have been cut quite low,,, but should be
OK to run. Heads have been ported to approx. 39mm with the last
2mm of the port tapered out to 40mm. The Ex. ports are 39.25mm
to 39.5mm. Chambers have been chamfered for 100mm.

Disappointed to find out even after them being sent out to be repaired previously the worn exhaust valves were not caught.
It was also pointed out that the AASCO valve springs were shimmed extremely tight.

The combo of these problems would mean that sooner than later it would seize a valve guide.
Or you know worse.

EBS is telling me that the pistons I have are worn out. Now I have a bit of a problem with this because I previously sent them the pistons and cyls to size them for rings and be replated.
If that was the case that the pistons were worn out how did they not spot that 3k miles ago.
They are also telling me that the motor was "over fueled" When i pushed them harder for an explanation it was not really able to be elaborated on.

Regardless I have decided that Ill work with them and buy a new set of CP pistons and Carrillo rods. the rods mostly because I'm starting to push on the motor pretty hard and I like to rev it. So why not put them in there if its in budget for now.

with new pistons being bought the plan is to shot for a 11:1 compression keep the existing cams and upgrade the heat exchangers to the 41mm SSI versions. hopefully this will eliminate the oil consumption and with everything healthy it will add some performance. not that I really needed it.

colingreene 10-04-2023 12:35 PM

Finally A update with some pictures.

Being I am currently living in Minnesota but the car is in California it does not often afford me time to work on it.
As I mentioned before I put my motor (2.8L twin plug) destined for my 914 into the 911 while I work on the 3.3. This was around Christmas of 2022 when that was done and I had about 200 miles on it between the little bit I was able to drive it and some driving my dad did.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.jpg

Being that the car had about 200 miles on it and a partial tank of fuel this was my first fill up on a round-trip to Rennsport Reunion.
Yes that's right i decided to break the motor in by driving it about 7-8 hours with LA traffic to Salinas.
My first trip to Rennsport with the car was not possible for some reason, i don't recall why honestly. My 914 may have already been in MN. Unimportant really. What is important is that the car ran like a champ and did not use any oil that I noticed.
While not quite the same amount of power as the 3.3 I can tell you that this 2.8 moves out with two full sized guys in the car and all of our stuff.

The motor did noticeably smooth out about in Santa Barbra on the way back. Weird how that happens. I wonder if its actually a real thing or if as a car person whos' hypercritical of my own work I am imagining things.

We saw all manner of traffic on the trip, some more interesting than others.
The Carrera GT always has been for me a high point of Porsche sports cars so I was thrilled to be behind one. Its still a dream car for me.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.jpg

I did of course have to check out any and all 914-6 GT while there. I love 914s maybe even more than my 911. Hard to say.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.PNG

We stayed in Aptos a bit of a hike from the track and one night on the way back I ran across a 914-6 being driven rather aggressively at 90 plus mph on the way back north. It was fun trying to keep up with him. I was not really willing to super break the law or beat on such a fresh motor though.

It was however really nice to see friends and play jokes on each other.
I did have a small starting problem during the trip that lead to the car being push started more than once.
And I did pick up a dent in my rear decklid from someones ill placed helping hand but that is just the way it is sometimes i guess. At the air BNB one of our friends used a ample opportunity while taking in the trash cans to snap this picture. Its often how i describe the car. Trash.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.jpg

Turned out that the reason why all of that happened was on the way north to Laguna Seca I nearly threw the car off the road like a cheap frisbee.
I had turned off for fuel, and the only option was Valero. we were just south of king city as it turned out so I opted to take a frontage road up to the town.
My friend was watching on the navigation and warned me of a slight left, we got through that without issue.
Then a "Slight right" as you can see in the picture it was not slight.
It was pitch black and my headlights could do with a bit of aiming.
All this to say I was worn out and driving past my prime. It very nearly ended with me going straight off the road in the dark.
The road was completely unmarked by either a centerline or turn signs.
Luckily my fully rebuilt brake system and good tires were more than up to the task to prevent a stupid mistake from destroying my car.
I admit this only to hopefully prevent someone else from doing what I did.

all and all the trip was excellent and I am somewhat sad that this event only happens every 5 years. Time really seems to get past you when you are waiting for the next event...

But this motor checks out and is ready for my 914.
My heads for the 3.3 are back and refurbished by Walt at Competition engineering.
I am measuring the pistons to see if any actual wear occurred or not. Frankly I think the machine shop EBS uses was just being extremely conservative with the "Bad pistons diagnosis"
And hopefully this Christmas/holiday season Ill be able to button up the 3.3 and get it back into the car.
I also picked up a Oil cooler for the 914 to get this 2.8 into it.
That is not even mentioning the 951 that i bought in rough shape I have been working on. But its really what I like doing so. its not all bad.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.JPG






I did happen to see this 911 on the way out of the track Sunday evening. It looks like what my car would if i backdate it. Its something I think of occasionally but I'm not sure its the right choice. As always I am open to opinions. The second image was cut off so Ill have to do another post and fill in some other details. His was black with a green interior. Very very nice.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.jpg

here are some other pictures of the car for reference. The primer on the door is where some rust repair took place.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696450583.jpg

colingreene 10-04-2023 12:46 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696452204.PNG


Added a rear shot of my cars earlier sibling.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696452204.jpg

We also took the time to go visit Canepa in Scotts valley.
They had plenty of great things to look at.
I could expand on pictures of it but I'm sure everyone else has better pictures than i do.
That being said the overhead shot of the F25 was pretty neat.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696452204.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696452204.jpg

Stickers are a common prank our group seemed to be playing on each other this one was a great one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696452204.jpg


This 914-6 GT is the picture that just wont show up in my previous post.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696452204.jpg

and here is my close to ending milage. a last fill up before making it home without major incident.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696452204.jpg


Hopefully I have more updates soon but that remains to be seen.

chrisbalich 10-09-2023 05:58 AM

Rennsport was a blast. Glad you had a great time.

colingreene 10-09-2023 09:17 AM

Chris, I saw your car at the checked it out party but I did not wind up meeting you.
Car looks awesome.

colingreene 11-22-2023 10:49 AM

I have made 0 progress on fixing the 3.3 motor.
Originally I had planned to buy some Carillo rods for it but that was sort of pushed off track by spending too much time at work on Pelican Parts and finding a set of sport seats.

So here I am, with a haggard pair of sport seats in bad shape that need to be gone though.
they felt expensive to buy but I'm sure I wont care once they are done.
And lets be realistic Im going to buy the rods anyway.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1700682556.JPG

colingreene 01-05-2024 11:57 AM

Back to scream into the void some more.

No real progress over the holiday the only time I actually have to put any time into this.
I did manage to measure the pistons and cyls of my 3.3 they all check out just fine.
That said I do want to have the RA checked on the cyl walls just to be certain that was not my oil consumption issue.
I have my suspicions on what it was but that is not as important as solving it now.
The pistons and cyls measure out exactly the same as they went in before the motor went together proving EBS wrong that the pistons were "worn out" I personally think their engine builder/machine guy just has no clue.
Still like Don though he is a stand up guy.

Fan was finally re finished and the center plated. Got that assembled into a complete fan.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704487933.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704487933.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704487933.jpg

I also had stripped some SC spring plates and had them plated.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704487933.jpg

Soon ill be able to do the ring on the 2.8 ending my mis matched parts conundrum.

I also stripped down the sport seats I had bought and found them as represented and in largely excellent condition however the seller could not have known whoever worked on them before glued the coverers directly to the foam.
Who the hell does that?
This meant I had to carefully separate the thankfully failing glue from the foam in order to salvage the foam that is largely in good condition.
The parts all came apart for the frames. Only one small weld was broken.
I welded that up and then had to have the frames blasted because they do not fit well in my blaster.
Ill be re shooting the frames in duplicolor acid etch primer to match the color they were previously.
one seat saw some water so it had more rust than the other but ultimately its in good condition.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704487933.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704487933.jpg

I am also considering adding seat heating pads to them but jury is still out about that.
if anyone has any feed back on that I welcome it.

jerrykrug 01-05-2024 03:41 PM

Amazing post, just read the whole thing !! - keep the updates coming

Rodsrsr 01-05-2024 04:45 PM

subscribed.

colingreene 01-08-2024 01:12 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704751808.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1704751808.jpg

quick update on the seats, Did manage to get them sand blasted because they did not fit in my harbor freight blaster, one of these days I may upgrade. either way that cost me 60$. Ouch.

Then painted them with duplicolor acid etch primer. Not sure if i want to paint them black or leave as is. This is close to the original color but it wont fully seal the metal off.

Also blasted the sliders cleaned them very thoroughly then painted them black.
need to re grease and work all that out.
not a huge update but it feels like a important one.


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