Can I license a track prepped 87 911 in California

[sjanes]

Hello,

I'm not sure if this belongs in the technical forum, but what I'm looking for is a technical answer, so I thought I would start here.

Here is my issue. I currently live in Canada, but will be moving to the San Francisco Bay area in the next month or two. My track car, a 1987 911 is street legal and plated here in Canada. I'm trying to find the rules for licensing the car in California so I can determine what I have to change, if anything, to get it licensed in California.

Because I use it on the street, it still has all lights and turn signals, factory bumpers and body panels, wipers, mirrors and a 3pt belt for the driver (there is no passenger seat). It also has a full (bolt-in) roll cage, shell seat, SSI headers (no cat), removable steering wheel, no heat, A/C or wiper washer tank/pump.

Has anyone taken their track prepped car though licensing in California or know where I can find the proper info? The car is now 31 years old, so is there a historic or classic car designation that it could have that makes the process easier?

Does it need to be smog tested? It actually passed the test here in Canada with the SSI headers, but is now exempt due to age.

Is there a noise limit (I assume so) for car exhaust, as it is currently 100.1 db measured at 15ft. It's a dual out, so blocking one exist gets me to 89db.

And finally, car insurance. Will an insurer create a policy for a car with a roll cage and race seat (and the rest of it) for street use? That is becoming a bigger problem here in Canada.

I have a trailer for it, but I would hate to see it turn into a trailer/track queen as I still like to drive it on the street.

Any guidance or experience will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Stacy Janes

[zedsn]

I do not live in Calif. but believe you will have a hard time passing smog there. They have a visual along with stringent testing and parts need to be original to the car I believe. There may be counties with easier smog rules there though. I would sell your car and find a 1974 or older because of the potential headache. Not sure if historical plates would help you there if even offered. Don't hate but so glad I don't live there for many reasons. Latest being a charge on each text proposed. I would think that Hagerty would insure your car no problem though but you would have limited use.

[PCA7GGR]

SSIs would be the issue. If you install the stock HEs w/ cat and the rest of the engine is "stock" you should pass the semi-annual (every two years) smog check.

As for insurance, CA companies don't really inspect or care about roll bars/cages, seats or the rest - as long as it passes the sniffer test, you're good to go.

[salayc]

You need smog to register which requires cats. You can get an independent VIN verification which will get you through the visual inspection required for registration (in addition to the smog visual.)
I don't think you will have a problem with insurance. I have insurance through Haggerty and a couple of others. At most they ask for pictures of the car, but for an agreed value policy, I don't think they care. There are some well known workarounds for all of this too.

[175K911]

Have you considered keeping the car registered in Canada for a while?

And do you still need to smog inspect a car more than 30 years old in California?

[speedster911]

Originally Posted by 175K911

And do you still need to smog inspect a car more than 30 years old in California?

75 and older do not require smog in CA.

As others have mentioned, it will require a smog check as well as two visual inspections (Smog station and DMV) . The SF/ Bay Area has more stringent testing than the coastal cities like Santa Cruz or Monterrey.

The best solution may be keep it a dedicated track car (no registration) and buy another for the street

[wildcat077]

Stacy ,

I still have the original heat exchangers from my 89 3.2 , in case you're looking for a set !

[sjanes]

Thanks for the info. I still have all of the original parts of the car (which drives my wife nuts), so the original exhaust is on a shelf around here somewhere. I'm surprised you have to smog a 31 year old car, but if that's the rules, I think I can adapt. The engine is not exactly "stock" as it is a 3.4L with 9.8:1 comp and a Steve Wong chip, but there is nothing crazy done to it.

@zedsn In this case, selling the car is not an option. I've had this car for 20 years and spent a long time building exactly what I want out of a 911. I'm going to be buried in this car :-)

@175k911 I thought of that, but not sure how the insurance would work since my home address would change.

The big thing is that it sounds like the insurance companies won't be an issue. Around here, they are really cracking down on modified cars due to liability with street racers.

Thanks.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by 175K911

And do you still need to smog inspect a car more than 30 years old in California?

75 and old are smog exempt and anything without OBD plug in has to do a rolling test on a dyno like affair while tail pipe sniffing occurs. my 93 jeep requires the rolling test .

[HaroldMHedge]

It's a real pain getting a non-California emission car into the state.

Here's some CA info on getting your car into the state: Buying a Vehicle From Out of State - Can You Register It in California? (FFVR 29)

[sjanes]

Thanks everyone. if the smog test has to be done regularly (1-2 years), this may become a dedicated track car. The SSI/exhaust combo that is on it goes really well with the 3.4L that's in it, I would hate to have to take it off.

[PCA7GGR]

The 3.4 further complicates things - the car must pass emissions for the year the 3.4 came from.

[Noah930]

As others have said, smogging the car is your biggest hurdle. California doesn't care about things like working lights, doors, tread on tires, etc. There is no safety inspection, like most other states require.

That being said, when you register the car, you have to take it the DMV. They want their money, but they also check for various stickers and the VIN, to make sure the car is federalized and isn't stolen. I haven't brought in a car from Canada so maybe there's even more to it, but when I've purchased vehicles from out of state, the DMV just wanted all the correct stickers in the right places.

Because I was missing one stupid sticker (on a motorcycle, no less--it doesn't even get smogged!), I had to make an appointment with the Highway Patrol. Pretty much to again make sure the vehicle hasn't been stolen, but the officer has wide berth to inspect anything and everything else on the vehicle if his mood is so inclined. That's where you might get into trouble.

Once you pass the DMV hurdle, you then have to smog the car. All vehicles up until '75 have to be smogged. And then every two years thereafter, as well. There is a visual inspection (the tech checks to make sure everything looks stock--so that part is up to the acuity of the particular tech). Smog shops are all independently run; they are not state-run, as in some states. And then there is the typical sniffer test. Technically, your car only has to be as clean as mandated the year it was manufactured. If you have an engine swap, it has to have all the emissions equipment from that more recent model year intact, and has to pass the sniffer standards for that newer model year.

There's a historic plate option, but I think you still have to get the car to pass smog once (when you apply for the plate) before you're exempt from the bienniel checks from then on.

[Noah930]

I know people with non-stock cars who swap back in their stock exhaust every 2 years for the smog check. I also know people with non-stock cars who "have a guy" they take their car to every two years to get the requisite DMV certifications.

[sjanes]

The 3.4L is only a P&C swap, not the entire motor, so it is still the stock 87 case. I doubt they would be able to tell the difference on visual. Maybe an exhaust swap every two years is doable. I will have to see if I have all of the parts.

I think all of the stickers are on the car. It was repainted in 2003, but it was done by the Porsche dealer bodyshop, so I assume they put VIN stickers back on. Never really checked.

I know people here that "have a guy" as well, I've never gone that route as the car actually passed without the cat the the guy doing the visual didn't really know what he was looking at with a rear engine car.

I have 4 vehicles that have to go through this process, so hopefully there are no issues with the others (all stock).

[Walt Fricke]

Stacy - what is it about wives and the desire to get rid of old car parts? Somehow pointing to shoe collections doesn't resolve things, either. And she's a racer, but that doesn't change the complaint.

[speedster911]

Originally Posted by sjanes

The 3.4L is only a P&C swap, not the entire motor, so it is still the stock 87 case. I doubt they would be able to tell the difference on visual. Maybe an exhaust swap every two years is doable. I will have to see if I have all of the parts.

I think all of the stickers are on the car. It was repainted in 2003, but it was done by the Porsche dealer bodyshop, so I assume they put VIN stickers back on. Never really checked.

I know people here that "have a guy" as well, I've never gone that route as the car actually passed without the cat the the guy doing the visual didn't really know what he was looking at with a rear engine car.

I have 4 vehicles that have to go through this process, so hopefully there are no issues with the others (all stock).

If your vin is on the window and still in the frunk - you will be OK, The DMV folks are clueless, many tines I have had to show them what they are looking for.

I'm in the Bay Area, if I can help in anyway, let me know.

[sjanes]

Tell me about it.

her: "are you ever going to use any of those parts?"
me: "um, maybe"
< 15 years later >
her: "are you ever going to use any of those parts?"
me: "can't risk it"

I'm now researching getting the other vehicles into California and looks like two others are out as well. Maybe I can live in Nevada and commute :-(

[Mahler9th]

Hello Stacy:

I have lived in the SF Bay Area for 20+ years, and been in the PCA years for 30+ years. I see two of my local Porsche friends have already responded.

I think you will have a complex situation trying to get your car smogged. Happy to introduce you to the area, and the local scene when the time comes. I have a very extensive local network which includes the best shops and other resources like dismantlers, body shops, detailers, racing shops and teams et cetera.

I started track driving back in 1987 or so, and started racing in around 1998. I have a smog exempt '75 that I occasionally drive on the street. It is primarily used for racing with a group I helped form in 2001 called the Porsche Racing Club.

I have a pretty good professional network too, so perhaps I can be helpful there.

Depending on logistics and availability, happy to take you on a Bay Area Porsche tour. Last time I did this for a Pelican participant I got to meet an ex-F1/now America's Cup technical professional-- very nice and accomplished young man.

Feel free to send me a PM.

Welcome in advance and happy holidays.

[gregpark]

Unfortunately, importing a car into CA requires a "smog" check and you must comply to get it registered. A visual inspection for correct emission control hardware and a sniffer test. And, unfortunately, selling a car requires the same. However, contrary to popular belief, the "every other year smog test" is NOT a State law, it's regional. There are entire counties and parts of other counties in which you are not required to "smog" your car every other year. The DMV computers go by the zip code to determine whether or not to send you that nasty little notice every two years. The whole emissions testing thing is much more about money than about clean air. One can legally change the residency of the vehicle and keep your mailing address the same to get your tags and you don't even have to know a "guy". I'll leave it at that.