Asking for Advise. I'm rebuilding a 3.2. Should I do 3.4/5 twin plug, etc.

[RWebb]

you can also keep the stock 3.2L pump and blueprint it

[yayo_ayala]

Guys, I really appreciate all the inputs. The only thing that I couldn't figure out and gave up -the twin plug.

I was hopping to get a 3.4, 964 oil pump, 964 cams, twin-plug, compression 10.5 or 11. unfortunately the Andial splitter is not any longer available. That was a problem that I couldn't solve. My mechanic suggested me to use Clewett Eng. and manage the time from crankshaft. We were ready to proceed that way, when we called Steve Wong; he told us the implications.

He explained us the time will not any longer be managed by the ECU, therefore we will loose the big advantage of twin-pluging the Enginee (TP). The main thing on TP, it is that you can retard the time between 8-10 degrees. Steve has configurations that will take advantage of the compression, muffles, etc.

I feel disappoint that I couldn't find a solution to replace the Andial Splitter. And I will live this post - hopefully someone could share their experience and a feature Pelican member can take advantage.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by yayo_ayala

Guys, I really appreciate all the inputs. The only thing that I couldn't figure out and gave up -the twin plug.

I was hopping to get a 3.4, 964 oil pump, 964 cams, twin-plug, compression 10.5 or 11. unfortunately the Andial splitter is not any longer available. That was a problem that I couldn't solve. My mechanic suggested me to use Clewett Eng. and manage the time from crankshaft. We were ready to proceed that way, when we called Steve Wong; he told us the implications.

He explained us the time will not any longer be managed by the ECU, therefore we will loose the big advantage of twin-pluging the Enginee (TP). The main thing on TP, it is that you can retard the time between 8-10 degrees. Steve has configurations that will take advantage of the compression, muffles, etc.

I feel disappoint that I couldn't find a solution to replace the Andial Splitter. And I will live this post - hopefully someone could share their experience and a feature Pelican member can take advantage.

Doesn't Sal Carceller build something similar to the Andial Splitter?

[fred cook]

Several years ago, I rebuilt the 3.0 engine in my SC to 3.3SS specs. I used the KN 100mm slip fit cylinders, 10.1:1 Mahle pistons, Carrera heads, 964 cams and the Electromotive XDi twin plug ignition system. Due to some machining that had been done on the heads, actual compression ratio came out at 10.8:1. The XDi system was quite easy to install and works great! This engine will happily putter around town but turn into a tiger when the pedal hits the metal! The only thing I didn't replace was the CIS injection. After reading much about the CIS limitations, I wanted to see what I could get out of it before changing to ITBs or carbs. Turned out that the CIS with some mods works great, allowing the engine to run strong all the way up to the 7500 rpm ignition cutout setting. With the twin plug ignition, this engine runs quite well on pump gas (91-93 octane). I shopped for parts for this engine for several years (5) but still wound up with a bit over $10K in parts. I did all the teardown, cleaning and assembly labor myself. Now, six years later, I am still completely happy with the way it turned out and would not change anything!

[yayo_ayala]

Fred, the point that I was making in regards with the XDi - the tunning is not ideal. I have no doubts that you car has a big punch. Review my comment from the perspective that once you change compression, fuel, cams, headers and twin plug - tunning the car will help you to take full advantage of those modifications.

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by yayo_ayala

Fred, the point that I was making in regards with the XDi - the tunning is not ideal. I have no doubts that you car has a big punch. Review my comment from the perspective that once you change compression, fuel, cams, headers and twin plug - tunning the car will help you to take full advantage of those modifications.

The timing control on the XDi system is pretty sophisticated. In addition to "built in" adjustments, there are 4 infinitely adjustable timing controls on the control box for fine tuning. Knob #1 sets the initial timing between 400 and 1000 rpms, knob #2 sets timing above 3000 rpms, knob #3 allows timing advance (or retard) above 8000 rpms, knob #4 sets the ignition cutout point or rpm limiter. The actual advance can be measured using a digital voltmeter. An example "starting point" for timing a street engine is recommended to be Initial knob = 12 degrees, 3000 knob = 21 degrees (which is added to the initial knob), 8000 rpm knob = -2 (subtracted) and knob 4 at some reasonable level. On my engine it is set at 7500 rpms. Also, keep in mind that my system is about 6 years old and current units will have been improved significantly. The system fire each of the two plugs from different coils to insure full voltage to each plug. The instructions that came with the system are much more detailed and you can find a copy on the Clewett web site. Whatever you decide to do with your engine, good luck! Just remember, it is always cheaper to do it right the first time!

[scarceller]

Yes, I have a better solution than the andial splitter.
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/899908-andial-splitter-simpler-alternative-solution.html
Then scroll down to post # 59

Originally Posted by famoroso

Doesn't Sal Carceller build something similar to the Andial Splitter?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally Posted by scarceller

Yes, I have a better solution than the andial splitter.
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/899908-andial-splitter-simpler-alternative-solution.html
Then scroll down to post # 59

I've been using Sal's splitter with my 3.4L twin plug since he started making them and has been faultless even on the track and in the pouring rain - not at the same time :-).
I used to have an Andial splitter which was OK but not as good as Sal's IMO.

[ChrisBennet]

When I owned the Andial splitter I traced out the circuit. In case you're young or an analog only engineer, a "7400" is TTL NAND gate that's was popular in the 1970's and 80's before everything went surface mount. In this circuit, it was used to invert the signal from the car's computer (DME).

The date on the image is from 2004. Sorry for the crappy image.

[GH85Carrera]

As others have said it all comes dowm to budget. It is easy to spend 30 grand on a 911 engine with all the bells and whistles. You will not recoup that upon sale.

I did lots of reading on this site when I had my engine done. I did some minor porting of the heads, mostly smoothing the bores. I went with all ARP bolts for the case and rods, and more critical balancing of the rotating parts, and 964 cams. I wanted the long term reliability and a bit more power. I ended up with 200 RWP. Nothing astonishing, but a little more than stock.

[HaroldMHedge]

Going through a similar build for my 87 3.2 to 3.4 conversion.

Decided to run 10.5 compression ratio after researching using a higher compression ratio here on Pelican. A ratio above 10.5 was too much based on my west coast gas octane and some feel even this is too high.

Performance enhancements are from 911Chips upgrades to throttle body (bored out), chip, dual plug conversion and DME checked (repair) for problems since I had a couple of solder connections that appeared to be overheated.

For longevity ARP rod bolts and Supertec Performance head stud kit.

It's a slippery slope once you get into it with other upgrades of while I'm in there.

Edit
Forgot to list going with 964 cam grind.

[Steve W]

There is an alternate, cleaner, simpler, very inexpensive, and what should be the most reliable solution for twin plugging that I've been providing for a while now, and Harold has this for his car. The setup is all factory Porsche and we've been running this setup on several cars with flawless results. No piggyback modules, transistors, resistors, capacitors, relays, ICs, circuit boards, or extraneous wires to fail. I provide the trigger signal out of the 3.2 DME unit, after which the user uses it to drive a single 993 ignition module, which then drives two coils. You can also use the signal out to drive a pair of ignition modules like a 964, but the 993 ignition module contains two drivers in one package, simplifying and making for a cleaner installation. The ignition modules can drive a pair of 3.2/964 ignition coils (just like a 964), or what I prefer the 993 coil which combines two coils in one package. For the 993 ignition module, you can use factory Por$che, or go with any of the other aftermarket equivalents which I think cost around $60. Diagram is as follows:

[3literpwr]

I just built a 3.4 with Web 20/21 cams, CP 10.3:1 pistons and fresh heads (single plug) in my hot '87. Overall the car feels eager to rev and pulls great. Outside of boost, I wouldn’t have done it differently. Built a much hotter 3.0 race engine and drilled center bearing, flow mods and all the small tricks, but for a street / track (1% of the time) car I'd pulled back on the mods. Frankly, the mods people are posting are for actual race cars, not track days or trips to your local cars and coffee. Then again, it's up to you.

I like building engines and playing with trick parts, so in the end, it will only impact your wallet.