When outlaws are no longer outre, whats next?
 

Taking a marginal 911 with mismatched numbers and hot rodding it is an accepted thing for us. We all love stuffing big motors into old 911s, adding ITBs where none existed before, changing the fenders and bumpers, and redecorating the interiors. These cars are lovingly called outlaws. But what happens if we go farther? Will it be accepted? Will it be ridiculed? And by the way, how many kw can a 901 trans handle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYrk5r4kiSM&pbjreload=10

I have severe misgivings about doing this type of conversion to a car like that 912 or the '66 Beetle, even if it's in a state of major disrepair as the 912 apparently was. That said, there's going to come a time when the gasoline we need to run our cars will become very expensive, and then it will be all but completely unavailable. While many of us will be dead by then, probably myself included, our cars, and their next owners, won't be. My younger son is 20, and he plans to take over my car when the time is right. So these EV conversions are going to become necessary, and the tech to do them is going to advance significantly from 2019 Tesla motor and any accompanying battery technology. I'm sure they'll be fun to drive, even if it's a different experience. And maybe folks will figure out how to build EVs that pretty much replicate the experience of driving the gas powered cars--who says EVs have to have max torque at 0 RPM?

but how else will I smell like gasoline and receive weekly noise complaints from my neighbors?

My daily is a plug-in hybrid. 2/3 of my miles in that car ('16 Audi A3 etron) are full EV mode. Max torque at 0 RPM is actually rather cool. It's definitely something you can get used to!

That said, I don't ever plan to replace my MFI motor with EV. It wouldn't feel right at all.

This is the ULTIMATE in hot rodding.

Although I wouldn't be interesting in doing a conversion like that, I've got to agree with Woody here - that mod is the equivalent of raising two tall middle fingers to the faces of all the purists, nostalgiaists, and naysayers out there (aka - more outlaw than outlaw). :)

My attitude has always been....."what ever works" I grew up having to do my own work and I am appreciative of that now. At a time when EV makes sense, it would be the next logical step. Not for me.....i'll be gone, but my spirit will live on in the 911 I built in my garage.

Our 911s are apparently a good fit for the EV conversion. I wont be doing it, but some have.

My 69 Ford truck is in need of an engine, and EV has passed thru my mind. But where the engine is key to the vehicles desirability? At some point, it will be unacceptable to drive a gas powered vehicle, or maybe it wont. who knows. Either way, we may all be gone by then.

I disagree with respect to everyone. Horses were the mode of transportation and hay is now expensive. Our Outlaw Porsches will always be relevant as fossil burning, noise making, unique aroma creators. My 25 year old daughter cant wait till she gets one of my 30 year old Pcars.

Well, out here in North Carolina we do the Tesla conversions to '74 RSR's. :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1564750650.jpg

This was at last month's Cars and Cappuccino event here in Charlotte. Personally I am conflicted. This thing will out-launch 90% of the high HP builds out there. But it was just eerie (not) hearing it roll by.

The body work is spot on (Backyard Legends) and the engineering ingenuity is truly impressive too. But man, I think I need sounds and smells. No just "launchability".

Might want to just gird yourself if you are hating this conversion. Rumor is there is a shop out here in NC that is gearing up to roll out a few more copies of these Tesla-powered 911's.

It will be a very long time before gasoline is gone. I will not live to see it.

Go on a road trip. Stop at a large Love's car and truck stop. You will see literally 100+ vehicles, all getting petroleum, food, and of course the pee stop. One week ago today I was in Key West. A 4,000 mile round trip. It would be simply impossible in an electric car.

No doubt, electric and hybrids will dominate the commuter traffic. But long haul and road trips will still need gasoline. And millions of people are on the road ever day driving coast to coast, border to border. Just go to the ocean to a local lake, and look at the boats. How long before electric boats take over? Yea, high voltage in a boat, no thanks.

Now go to your local civil airport or even the big international airport. When do you see electric airliners as practical? Ain't gonna happen with any technology even dreamed up yet. Same thing with civil or private airplanes.

Gasoline will be here a long time.

I believe the flat six sound and response is a large part of the true Porsche experience and heritage. If this is not important why spend huge amounts of money on rebuilding them when you can just slide in a GM V8 or Subaru ?
There are other alternative fluids and gases that the engine can be adapted to use.
As Andrew Frankel once stated in Motorsport Magazine " I have seen the future and battery's are not included"

NOPE, not going to happen, not here, no way, NOPE!
Old fart here.

My opinion is outlaws are well into the passé phase and feel badly for those in the middle of builds. I’m totally over them and think the market for them is getting worse. Most of them look like someone just bolted on a bunch of aftermarket Chinese made crap... same stuff over and over again. But, to each their own. Personally I would like more of them to be kept as original as possible even if they are beat up. Some look like people spent a fortune trying for a Singer wannabe that never really worked. It’s your money.

That being said I hope for more rat rodish influences being established on older original examples.

It can't be wrong if you're having fun.

Sleepers, that's what I'm putting together.

I love all of the comments in this thread. I am sympathetic to all. My hope is for my three car garage to change by replacing the BMW sedan with an electric conversion, keep and maintain the Cayman S, and continue to sort the 66 912/6. For me I’d have my bases covered, creature comforts and blazing speed in the Cayman, quiet, clean, and efficient in the EV, and raucous oil and gas fumed joy in the 1966

They need to do this with boring cars that transport from point A to point B. It has no place in a sports car who's very soul is the experience of the sound and feel running through the gears. I don't see the point in any way shape or form. If they think max torque at 0rpm is all that matters they sorely missed the point of a sports car. Those cars are soul-less and no longer Porsches.

^
This is a big reason I own an aircooled 911. Can't wait for my 2 in 2 out to arrive.

And here I was waiting for M&K to be the first out of the gates for aftermarket Taycan exhaust. Wait a minute...

I love the no f’n way comments. I bet Emory felt it from folks when he was creating the original outlaws. I totally respect the attitude. Rock on brothers. I think the genie is out of the bottle though. In 20 years we could end up with 4 types, OG and pure, outlaw and loving it, racing, and EV. It will be a big tent

^
I am thinking Chris is on to something. Makes sense.

When outlaws are no longer outre, whats next?
 

I studied electrical engineering and yet my stomach churns at the sight. I don’t care how fast or efficient or whatever else. It’s just wrong.

As I get older I contemplate possessions and what will happen to them when I'm gone. I look around and get somewhat overwhelmed by all the "stuff" I have, cars included. Is it responsible to leave getting rid of it all to my wife or kids?

I've thought about this as it relates to gas powered cars and whether they will hold their value in the 'short' enough term for me or my heirs to dispose of them intelligently and without losing money. Personally, I think it's irresponsible of me to leave all these marketplace decisions to them. Why should it be their problem?

Electric cars are here to stay, at least for the next wave of transportation before somebody comes up with a better idea. Buggy whips are history, as will be our beloved internal combustion engines, probably in my lifetime.

I for one will be selling mine. Hopefully I can time the market appropriately to enjoy them as long as I can.

I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had the $50K. Someone here already said, that is the ultimate hot rodding, and I agree. EVERYTHING that is being done has been done, and this is the natural evolution of things.
I hated the sound of the new F1 cars when they switched to 'hybrid' power, now I hardly notice.
It's not to say I don't have preferences but how can anyone argue with 520hp and 4500 ft/lb? :D

I'll be more curious to see what the unintended consequences of electric power batteries have. Back when cars first came along people we happy because there was less horse $%!# in the streets

Yeah its kinda like putting an electric motor in an old steam engine. It might work a hell of alot better but who cares you took away the best part

All I know about electric cars is that they have batteries, so I hope you'll excuse my ignorant question, to wit:

Can an electric motor power a race car effectively? How far away are we from a point where a racing team might choose an electric motor over internal combustion based on performance alone?

From some of the comments in this thread, it sounds like we're pretty close -- 'the obvious next step' as someone put it. Is this true? Are performance cars about to go electric on the basis of performance and NOT because electric cars are 'outre'?

I love it all.. EV is sooo new and inherently soulless in the sound, smell department that its out for me despite the wicked power(And it kicks some ass)
I love a beater with a big engine and some great suspension.. LOud fast Rules still in my book

In order to cut emissions and be more “green” I added a new hi-flow cat. And when I step on it, boy does it scream. Now I need to work on an unknown cooling restriction.

The moral to the story, you can cut emissions and mice, with a hot rod. Good luck EVs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1564797662.jpg

Sad but true. Climate science says we have 15 years before we reach the precipice. Minus the next 18 months we have 13.5 years. In that time there will need to be a quantum shift in terms of how we and our Govt apply ourselves to the problem but it's simply a question of what kind of a world we want leave our children. I for one don't want my kids enduring freak Weather, eating GM food grown in factories on the melted Siberian tundra because we couldn't find a way to change things. Everything else has evolved, its time the energy companies did too. In a sense it's our great struggle except this time we are fighting an existential foe instead of charging up beaches.

I would switch to an electric setup and enjoy the car in a new way, with a new series of challenges, and hopefully still be learning new skills and finding out about how to improve my 'clean' Porsche from this forum.

You feel bad for those who are building a car the way they want it? Why - because that's not what you would do? Cars built right, hotrods or not are nice cars, IMO. If something is half-assed, it's not so nice..and I guess not so valuable, since you seem to indicate that's the #1 thing someone should have in mind when building a car.

I've been part of a very well-done VW bus electric conversion project here in Ashland, Oregon. The bus is a joy to ride in. But with $20,000 worth of Lithium batteries in it, the range is only around 100 miles on flat ground. And that sucker is HEAVY.

With any currently available battery tech you're going to still have two major problems: First, same as all Teslas, the batteries are heavy. That means the car is going to handle like a pig. TERRIBLE thing to do to a Porsche, especially a vintage one. Second, the range limitation is a challenge, considering it's going to take quite a while to recharge the batteries every time the charge goes low.
You will have a car that accelerates like a rocket, but the more fun you have spinning the tires, the shorter the time battery charge lasts, and the more time you spend with it stationary at the charging station.

For me, the compromises were just not worth it. I considered doing the conversion to my '66 912 beater, but ultimately it was an easy choice to stick with my 2.2 Liter Type 4 motor.

Adam912.Out
'66 912, 495K miles. S suspension, 2.2 Litres of Type 4 Goodness.
S quickness, 912 lightness and balance!

The inevitability of vehicle electrification is a fool's errand.

We're just trading one form of pollution for another and kicking it overseas. Ever been to a battery plant and seen how these things are made? Or how they are disposed of? The strip mine where the base materials are harvested? Now multiply that by the volume needed to replace every car on the planet. Battery plants will likely reside in places like China or Mexico where the pollution laws are relaxed. I don't remember being asked if I wanted to buy an electric car and forfeit my gas burner. Internal combustion efficiency is improving every day. We're being forced into this by people who stand to make a bunch of money off it.

We liked the idea a lot.

"We're being forced into this by people who stand to make a bunch of money off it."

We are also being forced to keep internal combustion by energy companies who continue to make staggering amounts of money from it.

No doubt battery production is bad for the earth, but it's not directly affecting the global weather system. Emissions are. So whether you, the current administration or all of us who love these cars like it or not, climate change is an emergency that's about our children and their children's lives.

Hopefully we get an administration that can see and understand serious problems through a longer term humanist lens versus the current narcissistic short term greedy one, and will push legislation that forces fossil fuel energy companies to put profits into the research thats desperately needed.

Nice religion you have. Take it to PARF please....

For those interested in real science - https://cdiac.ess-dive.lbl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.html

Temperature increases precede rises in atmospheric CO2 not the other way around.

I think the trend is going to follow the aircooled VW trend, who are a few years ahead of us as far as swapping/engineering goes. I think we (as an industry/hobby/etc) have this attitude that our "shiz don't stink", so we can ask *exorbitant* prices for things that are sometimes 10x cheaper with an aircooled VW VIN.

Personally, a bone-stock 69S (or T, or whatever) is nice...but kinda boring. I like the hot rods, and I like the innovation of people doing electric or high HP Subie (insert foreshadowing music here...) swaps. I like the creativity, the engineering, etc...

that said...if it's a matching numbers car, I don't think it should be screwed with. But if it's already been severely modified, or is a rustbucket, and someone brings it back from the grave, I say "have at it!".

If you agree...I might humbly suggest you check out my YouTube channel in the next few weeks. :P

This headed to PARF so i will bow out. But you really should get some contemporary data. 2003 was 16 years ago. Less than the time we have before we approach +2c
https://climate.nasa.gov/

Things change fast.