G50 blocking entry to 1st + 2nd gear? slave cyl or master cyl going?

ryguy0492 · 03-03-2020, 01:45 PM

Hello all, I've got a triple black (black outside, inside and black fuchs + factory picnic table

) 87 911. Been my fathers car for 30 or so years, for 15+ it was his only car and daily driver. As the years went by it got obviously more difficult to daily, and has just been relaxing in the garage most of the time.

Anywho - was driving today and noticed it was getting increasingly difficult to get into 1st. The trans has always been reluctant to go into 1st unless you're at a dead stop, but this was significantly worse. At one point on my short commute i was really trying and couldn't get it into gear. 2nd also seemed locked out as well.

I limped to work and checked it out. checked the transaxle's fluid - looked great. My dad checked it out and instantly double clutched and could get into 1st and 2nd, albeit it was still clunky and would need to be double clutched to go into 1st again.

So anyway.. slave cyl bad? master? just need to be bled? Also if I clutched in and tried to go into 1st or 2nd, just touching the shifter to 1st gear would roll me forward, although i couldnt fully engage the gear

Quicksilver · 03-03-2020, 05:24 PM

If it requires a different level of force to get it into gear when running and not then the difference is somewhere in the clutch. (Actually it can be sometimes harder to get into a gear when the transmission isn't turning.)

Either the hydraulics and cross arm aren't releasing completely, the pressure plate has an issue, or the clutch disk is the problem.
- I'd look at the bleeding of the the cylinder which is a common issue and can be stupidly hard to accomplish correctly.
- The clutch disk could be warped or 'out of true' in some other fashion.

A good test step to get a clearer idea is to put the car up on jackstands, put it in 1st gear, and run the engine. If the clutch isn't fully releasing it will be obvious because the tires will be spinning. If there is slight drag (still bad) you can stop the wheels but for correct action of the syncros you shouldn't see any transmission of force. More importantly it will be constantly wearing the syncros with each shift and you will significantly reduce the transmissions life.

rdrr · 03-03-2020, 05:30 PM

I had a similar symptom in my g50 some years back. 1st and 2nd locked out completely, but occasionally available, which made me hopeful that it was something simple. It turned out to be a failed bearing, requiring a rebuild.

Hope you have better luck!

ryguy0492 · 03-03-2020, 05:44 PM

thanks quicksilver. yes it definitely sounds related to the clutch (not) releasing. when i managed to get it in 1st gear with the car off at a stop, i would start the car with my foot fully on the clutch and it would still roll forward gently.. i have noticed the pedal itself doesn't feel great the last few days, it seems like there's not as much pressure behind the pedal, especially in the beginning of travel. it audibly flops.
Would you start with the master or slave cylinder? I was having some brake troubles (caliper stuck, rebuilt), could that be related?

ryguy0492 · 03-03-2020, 05:45 PM

thanks rdrr. damn that would suck!

kevingross · 03-04-2020, 06:29 AM

If you have this problem in 1st and 2nd, but no problem shifting other gears, it's unlikely to be a clutch issue. More likely you have worn / broken synchronizers on 1st and 2nd, or issues with their synchro hub.

ryguy0492 · 03-05-2020, 04:03 AM

hope not

. it seems tough/clunky to get in the other gears too. also i drove around for a little today just double clutching for 1st and second, seemed okay

JRSIII · 03-05-2020, 06:40 AM

This sounds hydraulic to me. I had a similar issue recently. First, I was having trouble getting into gear, especially first. The next time I went to try to drive it, I couldn't get into any gear at all with the car running, but could get into all gears with the car off. Fortunately this was in my carhold. Turned out to be the master cylinder. If you situation is similar to mine, it may get progressively worse and perhaps leave you stranded, so I'd try to get it fixed before driving too much more.

ryguy0492 · 03-06-2020, 04:02 PM

After some more looking, it appears brake fluid is BLEEDING out of the transmission window on the bottom. This must be where my fluid is going, is this the slave cylinder being blown internally? and is leaking fluid into the trans, out that window?

shrtshck · 03-08-2020, 08:38 AM

I dealt with similar issues on my 87 a few years back, try pumping the clutch pedal a few times to see if that helps.
In my case it was the slave cylinder that needed to be replaced.
As noted by others it is very awkward to bleed so it tends to be overlooked, the crap that came out of mine was pretty gross. I suspect that over time the moisture build up (due to not being bled) on the slave end eventually ruins the seals or metal housing causing the failure.