Calif. Vehicle Title lost, help - quick!

MarkP · 04-11-2003, 11:21 AM

I have my plane ticket and cashiers check in hand to fly down to Sacramento early tomorrow to pick up the 85 Carrera and....

The seller just calls and says, "I've misplaced the title. I haveall the forms from AAA (thats what he said) and I will fill out the lost title request and everything will be fine".

There seems to be little doubt that he is the actual owner - all the service docs have his name on them. But, I'm hesitant to hand over the cash without a clear title.

Tried to find some CA State info on the web, but don't even know where to start. What is the name of the department that handles this stuff down there? Is it DMV?

Any advice or suggestions? Thanks

DE_shirts · 04-11-2003, 11:23 AM

PM or call MikeZ. He's a dealer in Cali right? He has a webpage with a phone number. Good Luck!

RickM · RickM's Garage

If it's the same as NJ they will need proof that he is the owner. When he's furnished that they will issue a title that will say duplicate on it.
When you register the car they'll issue a new title to you.

If the duplicate title doesn't say salvage on it it's clear title.

MarkP · 04-11-2003, 11:37 AM

This gosh darn Internet thingy is amazing! Just kept digging and I found this on the CA DMV site. Okay, panick has subsided. Thanks all.

"A properly endorsed title, also known as a pink slip, with the previous owner's signature on line one. If the vehicle is or was financed, line two of the title will also require a releasing signature. If the title is lost, an Application for Duplicate Title (REG 227) must be completed and signed. There is an additional fee of $7 for a duplicate title and signatures of the legal owner and lienholder must be notarized."

Paul_Heery · Paul_Heery's Garage

Mark,

I'm not sure how long it takes to get the duplicate title. But, if I were in your position I would:

Make sure that the bill of sale references that the title was not delivered at the time the car was delivered (picked up).
State on the BOS that the title must be delivered by the seller on or before xx/xx/xx (date).
Hold back part of the purchase price that you will send to him once the title has been delivered and has been validated to be as represented (clean title, not salvage). I would make this a significant amount. Maybe the difference between similar cars with clean and salvage titles.

Dan Owens · 04-11-2003, 11:52 AM

Mark,

It's not clear by your post who's getting the duplicate title from CA DMV. If it were me I'd have him go get the replacement title. He can go there and provide proof and walk out with a new title the same day. I got burned like this before and ended up chasing the guy for a couple months to get a lien released.

Dan O.

RickM · RickM's Garage

In NJ you go to DMV and if you have the proper info they can issue a new title in minuites. I know it doesn't work like this in other states....can take weeks.

Personally, I wouldn't hand any money over or take the car unless the title was ready to go.

Can you reshedule the flight?

RickM · RickM's Garage

Also, if you do reschedule and there is a cost ask him to pony up the cash. After all he is the cause of the delay.

tiorio · 04-11-2003, 12:01 PM

CA DMV CANNOT provide a title same-day. The usual turnaround for CA DMV to send a title is 3-6 weeks. I have a clean title with no issues that was submitted 3 weeks ago and have not seen the new title as of yet. This is the norm. I don't believe there are any rush options available HOWEVER...

You can go with the seller to the CA DMV and his proof of ownership. The nice clerk will be able to pull up the VIN and with his proof of ownership say the nice words "the title will arrive in 4-6 weeks, sir" which means that yes, he does own the car. Then the only question is that of whether the title is 'clean' or 'salvage', something the DMV clerk may, but probably will not, discuss with you and/or him. Who knows, maybe you'll get a nice one who really wants to help...

Good luck!

APKhaos · 04-11-2003, 12:05 PM

Mark,
I had a similar problem when I bought my car from it CA resident PO.
PLEASE have the current owner go to the DMV and get a duplicate title. It is quick, easy, and positive. I know because I didn't. It took more than two months to get my title from CA DMV, including dealing with the fact that a previous lienholder bank had been acquired years earlier, etc etc.

The seller should produce the title. You are risking a nightmare if not, based on my experience. YMMV, or course!

caliber60 · 04-11-2003, 02:10 PM

I have the similar experience. Don't give him the $$$ until he got the clear title or pink slip. I got burned once, the owner has the car registered in CA. The car has California valid registration. I later on found out the seller actually do not have the title for the car. I was not able to transfer the car under my name. You can register the car even you don't have the title. See the title before you do anything. I know it's painful waiting process. It usually take at least two weeks for the DMV to process your reqeust.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

If you have the time....you can go to AAA or DMV and register it/transfer it into your name the same day. They will send the title to your home address.

I would try AAA first...they smile when they take your money. The DMV will make you stand in line for 20 minutes and then tell you that you are in the wrong line.

APKhaos · 04-11-2003, 02:26 PM

Mark,
Don't assume he has the title, or that there is not a bank lien on the title. If there is, it will be your job to find the bank, determine if it was paid, get them to fill out a mess of DMV paper with notarised signatures, get the whole mess packaged up for the DMV, then wait for an indeterminate period before you get your title.

Don't mean to be alarmist, but this was a really ugly process for me and it started with a well know SFO surgeon who [I think] was just disorganized - not nefarious. PLEASE have the PO get a copy of the title before you close this deal.

MarkP · 04-11-2003, 02:41 PM

Here is the update -
The carfax is clean and I called the PPI mechanic back and he said there is no way it's a rebuild car - clean, original and factory cosmoline (sp?) still on it.

The seller agreed to take 75% tomorrow and 25% on delivery of the title.

I just have to run back to the bank for new cashiers checks.

Thanks again everyone!

jyl · jyl's Garage

I agree with the words of caution. I wouldn't buy the car until and unless he has the physical title document that shows he owns the car with no lienholder and no salvage title. You can get really screwed otherwise by an unscrupulous seller. What's the downside to making him get the title? Waiting a couple of weeks is no big deal. If the seller says he'll call the deal off, then so be it - you don't want to deal with someone like that anyway.

If the title shows a lienholder, then be very careful. Do not give funds to the seller and trust him to pay off the lienholder - my friend did this, the seller walked with the money, and now my friend has a vehicle that cannot be registered and is basically worthless - it is not even his property.

What I've done in the past is to write check #1 payable to the lender (not to the seller) for the total amount of the lien (and demand to see a letter from the lender confirming that amount and identifying the loan number, bank address and loan officer) and another, presumably smaller, check #2 payable to the seller for the balance. When exchanging checks for car, I have had the seller sign a letter stating that he will immediately pay off the loan and request the lienholder send you the Notice of Release of the lien, and note that arrangement on the Bill of Sale. And make sure you know where the seller lives and as much as possible about where he works, in case he tries to screw you.

Even with this method you are still not "safe" - the seller could still cash check #2 made out to him and not bother to pay off the lien - not sure why he would do that, but people can be weird. I guess the safest way is to have the seller sign a letter to the lienholder requesting the lien be released and the Notice of Release sent directly to you, then you and he enclose check #1 and mail or otherwise deliver the letter to the lienholder. I've not gone that far but I admit when I bought the 911 I spent a nervous month wondering where in the heck the Notice of Release was. And I came close to getting fined by the DMV for not registering the car in time.

RickM · RickM's Garage

Said it before...I'll say it again...

I wouldn't hand any money over or take the car unless the title was ready to go.

Good luck!

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

If you go to DMV or AAA like I suggested....THEY will tell you if there is a lien or a clouded title. THEN they will transfer the title to the NEW owner. The NEW owner will get a CA receipt for title transfer and the actual title will follow to the NEW owners address. If it is going out of State, you will most likely not have to pay registration ot sales tax, but will have to pay a fee for the lost title. Hint....tell them it is being shipped, no sales tax.

Don't make this more complicated than it is, guys......

MarkP · 04-11-2003, 03:32 PM

Thanks all for the advice. Call me foolish, but I have a pretty high level of confidence in this deal, because:

- The seller and his family are well established business people in the community. This has been unsolicited testimony from both the person who referred me to the seller (a Pelicanhead) and the mechanic.

- Documented original owner since 1985, unlikely to have a lienholder.

- The car was not being marketed aggressively - I sought him out through a referral.

- We will have a rock solid purchase/sale agreement that documents the title issue - common in dealership transactions.

- He is getting a 'copy' of the title from DMV today.

- I'm going to do my best to follow mikez suggestions tomorrow (thanks).

- When I get there, if it things seem fishy I'll walk from the deal and fly home.

MarkP · 04-11-2003, 03:36 PM

mikez - just called the seller again and he is going by AAA this afternoon to verify we can do this at their office tomorrow morning. Thanks again for the help.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Cool, BTW....AAA has direct access to CA DMV computers. They can print out genuine DMV receipts and registration on DMV letterhead.

I only go to the DMV when I absolutely have to. As amatter of fact, I went to AAA today. I just noticed that one of my trucks had an expired registration.....the morons at DMV did not send me a renewal. Paid the extortion....er fees, and got my sticker after ten minutes.

Here in CA, the local cops can impound a non-registered or expired tag vehicle.