Potential New Member - Looking at 1977 911S

[Scooter061]

Hello folks,

Having languished for years in the VW world, I am on the brink of purchasing a 911. Yes, I know the 1977 911S is known for thermal reactor reliability issues....but, it's what I can afford. That being said, can you folks tell me if this engine bay shows that the reactors have been replaced properly with something less destructive?

Thanks.

Scott in Oklahoma

[rwest]

I can see the air injection line and I think that the exhaust is still sporting the thermal reactors- my ‘77 had all of it removed when I bought it, so never actually saw the thermals.

[Flat6pac]

Those are thermal replacement exhaust. They have a history of breaking welds on the seams.
The air injectors on the heads are still there but of no consequence
Looks like replacement oil return tubes
Head studs may be pulling with that much oil on the outside
Drive it til you can’t keep oil in it while looking for a 3.0 replacement
Bruce

[AndreasK]

Looks like the thermal reactors (the cylindrical things) has been replaced with some diy pipes Original heat exchangers stil in place.

[2.7RS]

Scott.

Negotiate a potential engine rebuild, refresh on the purchase price.

It will happen

[gomezoneill]

A new set of SSI's will make that engine look a lot better and preform better.

[dfhtrhjn]

That's a lot of oil caked on the bottom. A thorough PPI is in order, and probably price negotiation. That being said, if the price is right go for it

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by dfhtrhjn

That's a lot of oil caked on the bottom. A thorough PPI is in order, and probably price negotiation. That being said, if the price is right go for it

I agree.

And I own a 1977.

The problem with putting SSI's on and not fixing all the oil leaks is that oil will drip on the heat exchangers and you may smell it in the cabin.

I plan on going with headers for that reason.

I have not had heat or A/C in my car for 16 years and just deal with it like the hearty souls of early motoring.

[AndreasK]

Originally Posted by dfhtrhjn

That's a lot of oil caked on the bottom. A thorough PPI is in order, and probably price negotiation. That being said, if the price is right go for it

Looks like the oil sender tubes has been replaced. They are the only clean tings under there

If the engine otherwise seems well sealed and runs well. I would go for a set of SSI´s, clean it up as much as possible, and just enjoy the car from there

I love my 2,7! (Owned 3 years now) And I´m really glad I went for it, despite some catastrophic predictions. Mine was rebuilt (probably just top end) around 80k. Something was done to the cams (964 was mentioned, but not confirmed). I´we gott SSI´s and a 2 in 2 out muffler. Lovely engine. Pulls very strong from 2500 all the way to redline. Sounds glorious!

[6cylboxer]

I have a 1977 911S that i bought 16 years ago - one of the first projects was to eliminate the thermal reactors with a BURSCH 3 to 1 that looks like the plumbing in the photos. The car has now 88K miles and drives magnificent

[RWebb]

1. the thermal reactors do the "damage" and it will still be there (case warpage) after they are removed

2. not all cars will need the very expensive machine work, but it's a risk you take - some will sell the engine (to a person who wants the Mg case for an early concoursmobile or period correct hotrod) and put a different engine in

3. an "S" for the middies (1974-77) means essentially nothing (as vs. the early cars)

4. you say afford - can you tell us your budget? there might be an SC someone knows about with your name on it

[88911coupe]

Are you going to ge a PPI? Not sure where you are in Oklahoma, but Rennsport in Tulsa has a pretty good reputation as I recall. GH85(Glen?) user name here is in OKC and probably knows who's good there.

[racer_X]

Originally Posted by Scooter061

Hello folks,

Having languished for years in the VW world, I am on the brink of purchasing a 911. Yes, I know the 1977 911S is known for thermal reactor reliability issues....but, it's what I can afford. That being said, can you folks tell me if this engine bay shows that the reactors have been replaced properly with something less destructive?

Thanks.

Scott in Oklahoma

Welcome Scott! What you have on your potential purchase is exactly what my 1977 911S purchased 13 years ago and those bent pipes coming out of the exhaust ports, are not thermo reactors- they are just regular exhaust manifolds.

That is good news if you are not in California, or live in a hot climate. Thermo reactors create a lot of heat and with the 5 blade fan these cars came with, it caused a short engine life. If you are in Cali, you will need thermo reactors to pass smog.

It also looks like you do have the air injection lines, so I assume you have an air pump. If you are in Cali, you will need that to pass smog, if not take it off.

2.7 CIS engines from 1977 usually need "updates" like an 11 blade fan, hydraulic chain tensioners, and a modification to the airbox to avoid fire starting back fires.

Most cars have all of these updates by now. Search for "2.7 CIS updates Pelican" in google and you will have lots of information.

1977 is a great year because they are cheap especially in Cali because they are required to pass smog) and because they are galvanized dipped cars with very little to no rust. Just check below the battery (they can rust here) and at the lower corners of the wind screen and rear windows. (Pry the rubber carefully up, water collects in these corners and can cause rust)

Good luck and read, read read, it takes time to collect the information and this is a great community to support you!

[sean m]

Racer......here are the Thermal Reactors. Mine are still installed and currently have over 245,000 miles on the original engine (never been dropped, rebuilt, or out of the car).

I know there are problems with them but I still drive my car every day and no issues.

[fanaudical]

Welcome to the forum, Scooter.

As others have said, the thermal reactors have been replaced with collector pipes. As to when, who knows. Something else I notice is that the muffler doesn't have the EGR supply pipe; am guessing either the muffler was replaced at some point or that 911 didn't come with EGR.

Definitely spring for a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) by someone familiar with 911's.

The bottom of that motor looks to be in better shape than my 2.7 did when I acquired it. I was advised to drop the 2.7 and find a later model motor to install. Some days I wish I had done just that (would have had the car on the road a few years earlier). Instead I rebuilt the 2.7 and it's a great motor - revs all day and really likes it. It was expensive - and I think worth it (most days...).

[911SauCy]

New oil return tubes. The old ones were likely the reason there is so much oil on the motor. Part of your buying process should be getting the owner to degrease the engine....drive it....and let you get back under it a week later.

THEN, you will know if it's leaky.

And if it is leaky then, that is when you ask to pull valve covers to see if there are broken head studs

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

...... degrease the engine....

Words of caution on that topic (as with everything), shortly after my purchase the rear oil cooler developed a crack, by the time I got it to a shop it was hemorrhaging oil.

The shop steamed cleaned the engine as a result, and so they could pull the engine, put in a clutch, return oil tubes, chain tensioner upgrade etc.......hence why so many people say get a PPI.

However when I got the car back I started to hear a weird whining sound from the rear.

Apparently in the zeal to power clean / steam clean they may have removed some of the wheel bearing grease in the process.

Unless you want to pull your 240 lb torque castellated nut off and repack or replace rear wheel bearings, one has got to be careful in that area (including CV joints/boots).

If anyone has had a similar problem and wants a temporary short term fix until they can open it up and pull things, PM me I know a few tricks.

EDIT:

Re-lube of clutch, shift and throttle linkages may be required after engine and transmission cleaning/degreasing.

[KNS]

It'd be nice if the OP acknowledged the responses to his inquiry - shows up asking for help and then disappears. Hopefully he's getting the PPI done.

[dwelle]

OP hasn't been back on the board since he posted...

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by dwelle

OP hasn't been back on the board since he posted...

If this is the same guy, he ain't going to fit into any sports car.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-general/1343130-newbie-in-the-northwest-longish-post.html#post1554549344