Perma-Tune: Great Warranty Service

[Marc911S1971]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and wanted to tell you all about my truly excellent experience with the Perma-Tune service department. I recently completed a five-year restoration of my 1971 911S Targa which I have owned for 35 years. In 2001, I had the car overhauled (not a concours restoration) so I could go to the track with the local Porsche Region. I still had the original Bosch CD unit and coil and they worked very well at that time: with a real 2.7RS engine in the back, the car was very fast on the track so all was well. 20 years later, after living with the restored car for a few months, I realized my CD unit, although functional, was due for some serious work:not quite the power of 20 years ago although the engine was completely redone, as well as the distributor, plus the infamous tach wobble. I was thinking of having it rebuilt, but I decided to go for a concours correct, much more modern solution.

After a bit of research, I ordered a new Perma-Tune three pin module. The guys I purchased the module from sent me the part and I installed it myself (really easy). The car ran for literally two seconds and died. The place I purchased the module said to contact Perma-Tune for warranty support. I did, and they recommended to send the module, my coil and the old Bosch unit to them for testing.

They got back to me as soon as they got the parts and said that my coil was arcing through the high voltage tower to the primary terminal (it probably had been dropped and the ceramic interior cracked), my Bosch module also had problems (intermittent firing from age and component degradation – capacitors in particular, according to the research I did). To top it off, the Perma-Tune was badly damaged. They also said the Perma-Tune was not new. I certainly did not expect that. After several conversations between me, the guys I purchased the module from and Perma-Tune, I realized that the place I purchased the Perma-Tune from failed to tell me that the coil and module should always be replaced together and that the Perma-Tune module that was sold to me as new was in fact a salvaged part!

I was quite ready for a fight about being sold a used part, needless to say. However, there was no need: the guys at Perma-Tune said that they would take care of this for me and sent me a new module right away. I put the new module in with a new Perma-Tune coil as soon as I got them. My car started immediately and now runs perfectly. That was really great service from Perma-Tune and they did not even charge me for the testing. There are not many places left where you can call for sservice and get a real person on the phone, let alone someone that knows these classic Porsche cars.

[Fred Winterburn]

Permatune must have pulled itself out of the ashes again. I thought it was defunct but looks like they are back in action. They also seem to have given up on the 'Plasmatronics" BS from a few years ago. Interesting! Fred

Originally Posted by Marc911S1971

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and wanted to tell you all about my truly excellent experience with the Perma-Tune service department. I recently completed a five-year restoration of my 1971 911S Targa which I have owned for 35 years. In 2001, I had the car overhauled (not a concours restoration) so I could go to the track with the local Porsche Region. I still had the original Bosch CD unit and coil and they worked very well at that time: with a real 2.7RS engine in the back, the car was very fast on the track so all was well. 20 years later, after living with the restored car for a few months, I realized my CD unit, although functional, was due for some serious work:not quite the power of 20 years ago although the engine was completely redone, as well as the distributor, plus the infamous tach wobble. I was thinking of having it rebuilt, but I decided to go for a concours correct, much more modern solution.

After a bit of research, I ordered a new Perma-Tune three pin module. The guys I purchased the module from sent me the part and I installed it myself (really easy). The car ran for literally two seconds and died. The place I purchased the module said to contact Perma-Tune for warranty support. I did, and they recommended to send the module, my coil and the old Bosch unit to them for testing.

They got back to me as soon as they got the parts and said that my coil was arcing through the high voltage tower to the primary terminal (it probably had been dropped and the ceramic interior cracked), my Bosch module also had problems (intermittent firing from age and component degradation – capacitors in particular, according to the research I did). To top it off, the Perma-Tune was badly damaged. They also said the Perma-Tune was not new. I certainly did not expect that. After several conversations between me, the guys I purchased the module from and Perma-Tune, I realized that the place I purchased the Perma-Tune from failed to tell me that the coil and module should always be replaced together and that the Perma-Tune module that was sold to me as new was in fact a salvaged part!

I was quite ready for a fight about being sold a used part, needless to say. However, there was no need: the guys at Perma-Tune said that they would take care of this for me and sent me a new module right away. I put the new module in with a new Perma-Tune coil as soon as I got them. My car started immediately and now runs perfectly. That was really great service from Perma-Tune and they did not even charge me for the testing. There are not many places left where you can call for sservice and get a real person on the phone, let alone someone that knows these classic Porsche cars.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by Marc911S1971

My car started immediately and now runs perfectly.

Consider carrying a spare CDI in your 911, e.g. the original BOSCH, given the poor reliability of Perma-Tunes.

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by mysocal911

.. the poor reliability of Perma-Tunes.

aha? please explain.

I run my Permatune silver-6-pin box from new since 2013 in my SC with absolutely no issue.

edit: I do not see how an original Bosch with 40+ years of old soldering and heat cycles could be outstandingly more reliable.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by Flojo

aha? please explain.

I run my Permatune silver-6-pin box from new since 2013 in my SC with absolutely no issue.

edit: I do not see how an original Bosch with 40+ years of old soldering and heat cycles could be outstandingly more reliable.

The Porsche factory in 1976 installed Perma-Tunes (blue). Those units and the early 3/6 pins (gold) were reliable.
Problems developed later when Perma-Tune decided to use a potting compound to seal the internals.
At that point, and the recent units (in a Bosch type casting), Perma-Tune became highly unreliable.

[crimedawg]

I was able to pick up my 78 SC at a significant discount as the PO had replaced the PermaTune twice and he was beyond frustrated. After my purchase (2006), I found Pelican. At that time, it was known as PermaTurd. With the help here, I was able to switch to an MSD. Not an issue since.

[Perma-Tune]

We have not come back as we have never left the Porsche scene in the first place. Perma-Tune has remained in production for more than 50 years (https://permatune.com/about/), exclusively in the USA.

It seems that persons that have problems with Perma-Tune ignitions are those that do not follow factory recommendations, especially those instructions about replacing the ignition coil with the module. Ignition coils do not last forever and are not easily diagnosed without the use of special equipment called a megger. Resistive tests do not detect dielectric insulation break down which is the most common form of ignition coil failure. An ignition coil is nothing more than a specialized transformer.

Generally, transformers have a primary circuit and a secondary circuit. The primary circuit are the two screw terminals that are connected to the ignition module. The secondary circuit is the high Voltage tower that connects to the distributor and then on to the spark plugs. An ignition transformer designed for a car (coil) steps up the Voltage from the primary circuit to the secondary circuit by around 100 times (depending on the coil design). The dielectric strength of the coil, that is what the megger tests, is the ability of the coil to resist the Voltage of the secondary circuit to flash back to the primary.

A defective coil can flash back internally between the primary and secondary circuit windings where the fault cannot be seen or externally between the high Voltage tower and the screw terminals that can be seen. Experience has shown that a coil that has been dented or dropped will likely flash back internally.

When flash back occurs, the Voltage that has been stepped up 100 times will flash back to the primary circuit that has lower resistance than the spark plug circuit. The primary circuit is of course connected to the ignition module. The ignition module cannot withstand 100 times the Voltage it was designed for and fails.
Replace the module without replacing the coil and then the new module is doomed, as is the next one and the next one until the coil is replaced or you switch over to a different ignition module that demands a different coil.

You can see how some people think the module is the problem when in fact the coil is the culprit. This is why we recommend replacing the module and coil together. Perma-Tune is not trying to sell you something you do not need, we are trying to keep you from wasting time and money. We used to say that the original OR the Perma-Tune coil can be used until Bosch started making their coils in Brazil. The Brazilian coils are not compatible with the Perma-Tune module. Professional mechanics are aware of this scenario and so avoid it. DIY mechanics that do not read this information on our installation instructions may experience problems. Fortunately Perma-Tune has a well-staffed warranty depart and offers free testing of ignition components, even those components not made by us.

If you doubt the reliability of the Perma-Tune module, there is a way to independently verify it. Contact a professional mechanic that has an account with a wholesale distribution warehouse. Ask the mechanic to contact his sales person at the warehouse. The sales person can access their data for any given part and see the number of units sold and the number of units returned to the warehouse as defective. You will find that the return rate for Perma-Tune parts are very, very low, especially for an electrical part.

Perma-Tune is the ignition of choice of credentialed, professional mechanics and restoration shops around the world, from US air cooled engine builders like JTE (John Truman Enterprises Inc.) to legendary race car engine builder Mittelmotor in Germany (https://www.mittelmotor.de/racing/en/1-9-elektrik/1-91-motorelektrik/1-913-traegerplatte/10329/1-1-91313c-neu-detail).