1988 911 Carrera - weird steering issue

[jared_s]

Some background - a few days ago, I get into the car to drive it for the very first time since I bought it. I have to make a right turn onto a moderately high speed two lane highway, and so I crank the steering wheel to the right and floor it since there is traffic coming. Before I know what happened, I am on the road but unable to prevent it veering off to the right. I come to a screeching halt before going down the bank, very embarrassed, and I thought "ah, this must be the fabled rear engine oversteer". So I took it easy for a while and things seemed ok.

But today it happened again when I was just turning into my driveway at very low speed, and "it" isn't what I thought at all. When (or some of the time) I turn the steering wheel more than usual, it *locks*, like in a normal car when you take the key out. For a moment I can't straighten the wheel. And I never stalled *either* time, the engine kept running. A few seconds later, it "unlocks" and seems ok again.

Is this a known issue? Is my car possessed? I realize that manual steering, which I assume I have, can be hard to turn, but this isn't that. It just bangs off a hard stop, as if locked from being straightened.

[CarlPet]

Would be putting that car on the back of a truck and having a good mechanic fix it before driving it again!!

[Arlo911]

Hi Jared, I've had the same thing happen to me. In my case it was a ball from the steering shaft bearing that got intermittently lodged inside the steering shaft housing. But, there are a couple of other things that could cause this behavior, from a worn steering rack, to worn steering joints etc. Best to have someone check it out before you have an accident.

[ben parrish]

Steering u-joint is the first place to look and service...then move to the rack. I had a slight "grab'" in my steering wheel and it took a little more effort turning left. The u-joint was a little dry but the rack was the culprit. The grease had dried out and become gummy in the bearings as well as the bellow and end cap had blown out and allowed dirt in there.; a full teardown and new grease and seals cured my issue.
In any event, you need to service this now as it leads to very bad things when you cannot control the direction of a car as you wish.

[88911coupe]

Wow, that would have scared the crap out of me! I will be following this to see what the cause might be. The steering on our 88's is pretty straightforward so we should be able to get to the bottom of the problem.

[Gianni at Pelican Parts]

First step would be to get it in a shop and on a lift.

Have someone turn the steering lock to lock and check for anywhere the tie rods could be making contact.

[Arlo911]

Get to the bottom of this before you start driving the car again, it would be a shame to get yourself or others hurt.

[88911coupe]

I'd raise front off the ground and see if you can recreate the problem. Then maybe lower front tires onto a couple of stacked tiles with grease between them and see if having the front weighted matters. I'd be reluctant to drive it to a shop...towed would be safer.

[sky1jord]

You might even try contacting the previous owner to ask for insight

[jared_s]

I expect I'll have to figure out how to recreate the issue on demand, or I won't get anywhere with a mechanic.

When the car is off and the key is out of the ignition, the steering wheel does lock as it should, as it does on other cars. I wonder if there is any way that this same mechanism can trigger when the car is running, because that's what it felt/sounded like.

[Tremelune]

That seems...extremely bad. To echo sentiments, take that car off the road and figure out what's going on. Removing the steering rack and column isn't crazy money, and it sure seems like you're risking death.

With luck, you won't find what I did, though with any issue like this...better to find it sooner rather than later.

[Jim2]

Years ago I had this happen to a 911 I bought, it had a steering shaft u-joint incorrectly installed and caused it to occasionally catch and bind on the surrounding sheet metal, it felt just like a steering lock when trying to unwind the wheel. Ended up the intermediate steering shaft was only inserted about .5” into one of the ujoints and not fully inserted to where the bolt indexes on the flat machined into the shaft. *Every* system on that car was assembled with a similar lack of integrity. Having the steering lock scared the hell out of me not to mention the safety issue of not having the shaft correctly assembled.

[4flyboy]

Hi Jared,

Had this issue in my '84, the steering would jam for a terrifying second on a lane change or turn. Sometimes, so fast, I wondered if I imagined it.

Extremely disconcerting and a shot of adrenaline when least expected.

It turned out to be one of two needle bearings in the smugglers box where to u-joint for the steering passes through.

It was a dyi job but fiddly. The parts are very inexpensive but get the best bearing you can find.

[mepstein]

Did you have a PPI done on the car?

[jared_s]

Originally Posted by mepstein

Did you have a PPI done on the car?

Porsche dealer (not the dealer I bought it from) has inspected twice now, says they see nothing wrong.

NY's used car lemon law seems to cover serious problems with steering, and the annual safety inspection should too. But it passed.

[isby]

OMG - this is terrifying. I like doing stuff myself, but if this were me I would be flat-bedding it to my local air-cooled mechanic to have the issue straightened out (no pun intended).

[Arlo911]

Originally Posted by jared_s

Porsche dealer (not the dealer I bought it from) has inspected twice now, says they see nothing wrong.

NY's used car lemon law seems to cover serious problems with steering, and the annual safety inspection should too. But it passed.

If you have the same issue I had, a ballbearing that fell into the steering shaft housing, youīll have a hard time trying to get the steering to lock up when you when to replicate the problem.Itīs also not visible.
I found out by pure chance, thinking it was the steering lock that was misbehaving.
When I was on my back pulling the steering lock out, one small metal ball fell out, which peaked my interest. After looking at the hole where the lock engages I saw a trace inside the steering shaft housing, so decided to remove it and investigate, then I found another ballbearing, that got lodged intermittently between the housing and the tab on the steering shaft that īlocksī with the steering lock, if that makes any sense.

[jared_s]

The dealer wanted to replace the whole steering rack, but couldn't guarantee that would fix it. They checked and believed there was no issue with the steering column, but the more old threads I read, the less certain I am.

Looks like there are many previous threads that may or may not be the same thing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/359332-steering-column-locks-while-driving-help.html

Notice this is the same person as above, 5 years later, so I can't tell if it's the same problem finally solved or a different one:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/689853-steering-wheel-stuck-while-driving.html

"Sounds like you may have chipped a tooth in the rack.
There would be a small piece of tooth floating around in the grease as well."


"The problem was with the universal joints in the smugglers box. I just packed some grease in the joints and the problem went away."

"The steering rack was being interferred with by an alarm horm which was not mounted and was loose under the front suspension pan. They reworked and secured the horn."

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/343319-steering-wheel-lock-up.html

"Turned (no pun intended) out to be a bearing feel out and was causing it to stick."

"It turned out to be a bearing that was completely worn inside of the steering column. I do not believe it was thhe one that is immediately under the steering wheel...it is deep inside the column/shaft."

This problem description seems the most consistent with mine:

"Occasionally, on hard right hand/left hand turns, my steering wheel locks into place at completion of the turn! This is quite scary - the only thing I can do is hit the brakes (looking like a nitwit turned into the curb, and hoping there isn't a hydrant, pole or pedestrian standing there!) - once the car comes to a complete stop, the steering wheel unfreezes..."

[jared_s]

Originally Posted by 4flyboy

Hi Jared,

Had this issue in my '84, the steering would jam for a terrifying second on a lane change or turn. Sometimes, so fast, I wondered if I imagined it.

Extremely disconcerting and a shot of adrenaline when least expected.

It turned out to be one of two needle bearings in the smugglers box where to u-joint for the steering passes through.

It was a dyi job but fiddly. The parts are very inexpensive but get the best bearing you can find.

Thank you. This sounds like different symptoms though. At least so far, both time it happened to me on a sharp 90 degree right turn, at walking speed or accelerating from it. There's been nothing weird while driving when the steering wheel is only turned a little. And I'm not sure it unjams until the car stops.

[jared_s]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

That seems...extremely bad. To echo sentiments, take that car off the road and figure out what's going on. Removing the steering rack and column isn't crazy money, and it sure seems like you're risking death.

With luck, you won't find what I did, though with any issue like this...better to find it sooner rather than later.

That is an interesting story, I read the thread to the end. But the symptoms are not the same as mine, and it sounds like in your case they were constant, not "once in a while". I don't know what "extremely heavy steering" is for these cars, but it seems reasonably light at speed.

My car appears unmodified other than a stereo and has no record of accidents, at the same time, there are no records of major work being done, or any work by Porsche specialists. I wonder if there's something that is easy to mess up on an alignment if you're not familiar with 911s...