Targa stiffness compared to coupe?

[nixtfy]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

I've had both and for the pure pleasure of driving, there is nothing like an open top car.
On the street nobody will ever notice the torsional difference.
I would say on the track the most notable downside would be the weight up top.
Only 911 guys like coupes better, XKE's Ferraris topless cars are favored.
I guess 356 Speedsters or Cabriolets are not popular among the coupe gang.
Since fewer Targas were produced maybe it's just jealousy

I also have enjoyed both targa and coupes. Just yesterday I had my 87’ targa out and it was so planted on the highway. My 77 gets a little floaty at 85 mph. My experience has been that the chassis stiffness is only noticeable at low speeds when going over a man hole cover. Higher speeds I don’t notice any chassis changes.

Targa’s unfairly get criticized for being loud and leaky. My 87’ is just as quiet as my coupe . Remove the door panels, set the 1/4 window height, angle of the side windows, latch adjustment, Replace any seals as necessary. My targa has never leaked. The noise above 55 is what bothered me enough to make all the adjustments. I will say it’s a slippery slope.

[ADDvanced]

My targa leaks like crazy, but I'm not paying $1500 for some foam molded rubber on a chassis design what was in production for 20+ years. If something costs $5 to make and they want $1000 plus for it, I'll live with the leaks out of principle.

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by 70SWT

For canyon carving in particular, longhood-era (and later) targas feel great compared to coupes, and provide the open-air experience coupes cannot. Of course, this assumes comparable cars with no chassis or setup issues.

The OP's question seems to arise from the culture created by so many who regard hardtop 911s as superior sports cars to the point of slamming targas and cabrios and their owners, as you see so much here and elsewhere.

This has always been one of the biggest head-scratchers for me over several decades of loving these cars. If you don't like open-top cars, great, but why the frank nastiness? I get that open-top cars can rattle and leak, but it's a taste/preference thing - beyond that, some of the discourse gets a bit silly.

I think a lot of the targa-slamming is "virtue signaling" - the implicit message that "I can only tolerate the coupe as sporting iron because I can detect performance advantages that the average guy cannot." Let's be honest, this kind of mentality fits the profile for a lot of Porsche owners who are obsessed with the coupe-based sports-purpose build and strive to be seen as the truly faithful.

It is a view that focuses on theoretical performance margins that only a pro can usually detect, vs. the total sportiness of the experience - the connection to the environment, sense of risk/danger/freedom, fresh air in your hair, etc.

When carving a canyon and in >95% of the driving of these cars, that sporty experience is what counts. A targa or later cabriolet can provide the same experience of a similarly set up coupe, but the reverse is not true. I'll take the targas and cabrios any day.

I think you're right. That's kind of where the question originated. There is some of that in the culture. I'm no racecar driver but I do drive pretty hard. I cut the cage out of my targa, and am working on restoring it to a road car..so I still can't say from personal experience. I do think I'll be able to feel the car move a lot more. I've felt it just over bumps at slow speed flex a little bit once I removed the cage..

You can still drive a targa plenty fast and have a lot of fun. I think the open top experience should outweigh the slight loss in rigidity..hopefully mine is on the road early next year and I can decide for myself.

I thought about this topic and decided to make a little video. hope you guys like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAzm8nXQv3w

[Coastr]

Lots of people who like cars consume car journalism. The journalists always rated cars on maximum handling ability. It’s part of what made 911s so popular in the first place - they always ‘won’ the comparison. But the culture seeps in that only the max performance car is worth owning, even if the owner never drives a track or above 80% anywhere. The flip side of this is that cars suitable for other joys - open air cruising, soft ride for long distances - get seen as inferior. So much of what is considered the best are the fastest track cars or the fastest 1/4 mile cars. It’s a bit dumb really, but here we are.

My reason for not liking targas is the styling, but I still appreciate them and see them as different. I can see the appeal for those who like cruising with the top off

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by Coastr

Lots of people who like cars consume car journalism. The journalists always rated cars on maximum handling ability. It’s part of what made 911s so popular in the first place - they always ‘won’ the comparison. But the culture seeps in that only the max performance car is worth owning, even if the owner never drives a track or above 80% anywhere. The flip side of this is that cars suitable for other joys - open air cruising, soft ride for long distances - get seen as inferior. So much of what is considered the best are the fastest track cars or the fastest 1/4 mile cars. It’s a bit dumb really, but here we are.

My reason for not liking targas is the styling, but I still appreciate them and see them as different. I can see the appeal for those who like cruising with the top off

Is that true? I'm sure handling was a big part of it, but the T turned the second fastest lap times. Faster than the higher HP 911E and was chosen as the favorite because of its handling characteristics/drivability. I also think It may have been the favorite because it was the odd duck and they didn't have high expectations for it. I don't know. I agree with what you're saying.

[shoooo32]

For me, it's all about the right tool for the job, and that goes for modifications as well. Putting 200tw tires on a vintage car with no other modifications will bring out creaks and groans you otherwise wouldn't experience. Is it the car's fault that the owner deviated drastically from the factory recipe? Once you define your use case, build the car to suit that need. Asking a targa to be a race car makes the same sense as taking your wife to dinner in the track rat.

[JonT]

Targas are badass period. Its the driver not the car.

[Walt Fricke]

They are good candidates for open cockpit race only cars, too.
No torsional rigidity deficits there.

[RSTarga]

Mark Donahue preferred the handling of the Targa over the coupe. Even though he accepted it was not as stiff. Certainly an expert on chassis dynamics.

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

Mark Donahue preferred the handling of the Targa over the coupe. Even though he accepted it was not as stiff. Certainly an expert on chassis dynamics.

In my mind, that is so cool..

Also, 73 911s since new?? wow

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by Coastr

Lots of people who like cars consume car journalism. The journalists always rated cars on maximum handling ability. It’s part of what made 911s so popular in the first place - they always ‘won’ the comparison. But the culture seeps in that only the max performance car is worth owning, even if the owner never drives a track or above 80% anywhere. The flip side of this is that cars suitable for other joys - open air cruising, soft ride for long distances - get seen as inferior. So much of what is considered the best are the fastest track cars or the fastest 1/4 mile cars. It’s a bit dumb really, but here we are.

My reason for not liking targas is the styling, but I still appreciate them and see them as different. I can see the appeal for those who like cruising with the top off

Too many people think superior metrics are the end all be all.

The most fun car I've ever owned was arguably the one with the worst metrics, a 70s Mini Cooper. 38hp and slow as hell, but OH SO FUN. Metrics don't matter. Experience does.