Installing H4 buckets help
 

Guys,
Is there a trick to installing the H4 headlight buckets?

I put on new seals, they are thick. I cant get the chrome ring to catch the lip.

Should i shave down the seal?


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Are you sure the seals are on in the right orientation, if they’re flipped, then they’ll protrude too much and make installing the headlight trim impossible. If they are in the right orientation, then you really just have to force it down so that the trim catches that little tab. The tighter fit generally means that they’re not gonna pop off when you’re driving, ask me how I know about that.

The seal isn't that strong, don't shave it. Make sure it's seated properly (there's a proper orientation), and just push push until the bucket gets over the lip.

I had the same problem, ultimately ordered and installed thinner seals. The following thread may be helpful - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/765751-headlight-install.html

yep, fiddle with it. Took me a good 30 minute per side to get them to catch both the top lip and then to get the set screw to thread. I would also like to give a shout out to the diabolical guy who designed the retaining springs. Cursed him every minute of trying to put them in place

Correct seal?
 

Does the placement of the seal look correct?

Onthe other headlight the nut where the buttom screw screws in broke off

Another headache to deal with


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670598396.jpg

This should help: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/9930240-post23.html

Still cant get it to catch the lip.


But it does help

Any pelicans in the west palm beach, FL area that could help ?

Lada - have been through this challenge, and not yet fully resolved, but took a break for my mental health.

Many of the H4 assemblies lip is very tight, which makes catching the flange hard on a good day. If you can CAREFULLY increase the lip to give you a better bite, that will help some. On my car, the H4s do not fit well, at all. I have LEDs, and they do not fully seat. A winter project will be to fit some steel rings, and prep and paint those to be done with it.

The headlights and AC makes me think some items were designed after a couple of days into Oktoberfest celebrations. Or they have a really odd sense of humor.

Yeah, I would never expect it to be such a pain.

Maybe i will find a local Porsche shop to help

May I ask where you got your H4's? Not all are made the same, some are from Magnetti Marelli out of Europe with correct chrome over brass trim rings... some are by AL, there's still some original Bosch H4's floating around....

And then... there's the "made up" h4's. This happens when someone buys the Hella European VWBeetle/356Porsche headlight assemblies that are still being offered new... and then swaps the trim rings to the 911 style ones that are widely available from URO.

The trim rings from URO are smaller in diameter both on the outer edge of the trim ring, and also on the inner opening where the glass fits. The difference to OEM is about 2.5mm to 3mm. In addition, the URO trim rings are made out of stamped steel, and not out of chrome plated brass. The brass "based" trim rings have more flex than the URO steel as well being made out of brass.

The made up H4's are offered by a LOT of people... and you can usually tell who they are as they offer great deals on their leftover VW/356 trim rings.

In regards to the seals... with my H1's I include the smaller diameter 356 seal as that's what I've had the most success with. A friend of mine who who works for 2 Porsche shops on an independent basis has found success with both the smaller seal that I offer, and the larger 911 type seal which is made out of a more compressible foam. Depending on the car he's installing the lights on, he's had to sometimes "trim" the seal where the lip is to get the ring to catch (original trim rings, or mine from the H1's I manufacture).

A magnet will help you tell if you have steel URO trim rings, or the OEM brass ones.

Was hoping you would pile it Erik!

Drive it on out to Scottsdale, enjoy the weather and we can work on it over a beverage. I found that sometimes helps

One of the H4’s was already installed on the car when i bought it. Its Bosch, made in the Czech republic.
I removed to change the bulb. The other side had a mismatched H1 light that i sold to fund a matching H4 used light (made in Germany)

Ring seals have been purchased from our host.

I would like to think that H4 lamp that i tried to fit is genuine and not pieced together





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670610862.jpg

I've just been trough this myself.

Hook the top in and push it back and down. Line up the screw hole at the bottom. Keep firmly pushing back and down as you do up the screw.

Don't cross thread the screw. Do a practice run without the headlight in place so you can see what the angle is.

Good luck.

The new seal covers the lip, i cant even hook the damn thing unless i lift the seal above the lip


Im afraid i use force to push it down and in, something bad will happen

H4 Install
 

I fought for an hour or two with these couple of months ago. Decided to install without seals as I just couldn't get it done, like what you are going through. Found a thread where 356 seals were recommended instead of the 911 seals since they are thinner. I just got a pair of them delivered but haven't tried to install yet. I'm really hoping they will work better...

Bend the lip out with duck bill pliers. I had to go around a few times. I also bent the flange on the ring our without denting. 1/2hr per lamp fitting time. https://www.knipex.com/products/gripping-pliers/duckbill-pliers/duckbill-pliers/3303160

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670617800.jpg


The tab looks a little short.

The lip on yours definitely looks like it sticks out more

mine is a '69 tub and the body flange been abused. On one I could use the new seal I bought form our host. Had to place the top where I thought the flange is and push the seal back with the back lip of the headlight assembly, then with my hand strike the ring with a bit of force pushing down and a bit back. The lower screw then cinched the assembly to the body.

The driver's side fought me greatly. Had to use the old seal that was thinner than the new one. Could not get the top to seat even using my hand pressure as noted above with the thicker seal.

A caution; use the right length screw at the bottom to hold the unit. I had a shop install the H4's before I went to Carmel in August and when coming to a fairly abrupt stop the right headlight assembly including the tab left the car. (some may remember my posts about welding or JB weld of the tab). The screw was contacting the body transmitting vibrations into my 53 year old spot weld that secured the tab that broke the welds.

The H4’s that I have are very early ones. The fit is pretty snug, I chase the threads on the lower tab with a tap prior to installing.

Was considering this kit for a 964 - thoughts?
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD63191101/euro-h4-headlight-conversion-kit-911-912-964-965-bosch.html

I'm in Jupiter, just north of WPB. I can pull mine off if you want to compare that lip? As another said, it looks short. I have a set of H5's on the car and need to put the H4's back on. Paint shop swapped them thinking they did me a favor lol but also painted my H4 rings in case I wanted to put them back on (so I ended up with a free set of H5's I suppose).

Where in WPB are you?

Pic
 

Bill,
I think these retaining springs maybe in the way, preventing me from mounting them.

I picture of the back would help

Im in Stuart.

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Yeah, you gotta get creative with the springs and move them to not create interference. Also, your mounting tabs may need to be bent back for clearance. Some do, some do not, but between adjusting screws on the H4s, the clips above and assembly ring aftermarket sizing differences, this can be a really unfulfilling circus. I will be on my third act this winter, but now better understand the battle ahead, so will be mentally prepared (more beer on hand).

Here's how I got mine installed after many tries over many months -
1. Check that the bolt for the tab screws in properly and NOTE THE ANGLE required.
2. Buy a longer bolt at Ace Hdwe that matches the threads of the installation bolt. Longer by maybe 2x but I don't remember for sure.
3. Place the oring/gasket on the car and face it towards the sun on a warmish day. Wait 30 mins.
4. Place the H4 bucket over the lip and then straddle and sit on it. More effective than pushing.
5. Use the longer bolt to carefully engage the first threads of the tab, then screw it in to set bucket in place. After it's set for awhile, remove the longer bolt and install the stock bolt.

Step 4 might be easier with another person sitting on the bucket than you bending over to get the long bolt engaged. Suggest wifey/gf for that one.

I gave up and installed mine without the seals.

This is a common problem. There's a lengthy discussion about it as regards installing my LED headlights here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1060914-audette-headlamp-fitment-difficulties-3.html#post11870205

Cheers,
John

Thanks John and everyone else for your help

I will give it another shot

Last question, does anyone know if the the Smaller light bulb connector was designed to be used n G body Porsches?

I dont have a wiring for it. Both my lights have the “plug nest” but no light bulb

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Ok
I had to trim the seal to open up the lip a little.

Also move around retaining clips


Its not pretty but one of them is done


Does anyone have an extra oem bolt for the buttom?


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M

Side is not pretty
 

You can get the bolt from Pelican, or the dealer. They are not nigh $$$.

You may want to take a close look at your mounting tabs in the light bucket. Many G folks have to bend those back so as not to impinge the adjustment screws on H4s. ALSO, on many of the housing rings, you may need to notch the inside of the ring at 8 o'clock - John Audette has some great info on that. As Erick explained, many of the after market rings are smaller dimensionally, and hard to fit (understatement). I think those that are successful are maybe more comfortable adjusting metal to get them to mount, or increase the lip on the rings by carefully bending. Do NOT use the tip of a screwdriver or you will dimple the exterior from inside. Ask me how I know this... :/

From your picture, I would guess your are up against the tab on the lower left side. Also, I removed the parking lamp bulb on the bottom. For me it was in the way of the mounting screws. I made a cover and installed without.

I plan on getting our a grinder and making the rings dimensionally better for fitment, but want to do it when I have time, am calm, and not frustrated. I also plan on reaching out to Erik and sourcing some 365 seals as well.

My Hail Mary will be ponying up for brass rings from Erik. Brass is more forgiving and flexes better than steel. The aftermarket rings are good quality but the smaller dimensions while close, combined with harder steel make me want to smash my hand with a hammer.

Chris,
I share your pain. Im a perfectionist and the way it mounted is not what i had hoped.

After my struggles, im done with it.. it wont pop off, good enough at this point

Brief reply... I'll need a few pics from a friend who works for Chris Powell (Chris's German Service, and tech advisor for Panorama) and hopefully we can help. So, there's multiple seals, some seem to work on better on SWB and others better on the G body cars.

I make the aftermarket H1 lights many of you "may" have seen, carried here by our host, and others as well. The trim ring is chrome over brass, and I also make a separate trim ring for the H4 and 65-67 USA/Euro lights. Between my European partner and myself we've got thousands out there since we first started selling them.

A person pushing down on top of the light while another is installing the bottom screw is best. We've tried and have been successful with screwing in the bottom attachment screw a little and then pushing up on the light to hook the top, but pushing down on the ring has been more successful.

Let me pull together the pics of the seals and we'll post what we've done.

Note that there's a tech bulletin that shows the factory suggesting a cutout on the bucket in the 4 and 8'oclock area to allow the adjusting rings of the H1's but I don't believe that's an issue here, and you can see the cutouts on Lada03's light buckets.

Seems there's more issues with G body cars, I've heard virtually no issues on earlier cars.
I've got the spec differences between the OEM and my rings and the URO rings which are definitely smaller. Perhaps there's a difference in the on fender bucket dimensions on the G body cars and they are just slightly smaller?

Pics to follow as we pull them together, including G body and SWB cars (sorry I'll have to find the time to run up to a local shop to put some lights on the owners personal original paint 73).

Note that I don't need a 2nd person to put the lights on any of my SWB cars, and I'm using the small 356 seal, and I don't have to trim the seal.

cheers,
Eric

Buttom
 

Our host doesnt seem to have a the screw that i need for the buttom. They sell one that works but its not the same as mine.

Screw
 

What I have
 

I have this one screw and the nut broke off on the drivers side

Thinking of jb weld the nut back. And need to find this same buttom screw

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1670939723.jpg

Clip, or you can use a rivnut. Send me your address, I have both that might work for you until or if you decide to do a full repair