Another Griffiths AC Install Thread
 

Well, I finally went and purchased a mostly complete overhaul of the AC system in my 86 Carrera. Parts shipped today! Scheduled to arrive over the weekend. 5 packages, 80 pounds of new gear...

Stage 1 upgrade:
--New barrier hoses with pressure switch
--Behind rear wheel condenser, rock guard, fan, wiring, etc.
--Receiver/drier
--R134 kit (car currently has R12)
Duehl Kuehl 4th Condenser in front of rear wheel
Upgraded front condenser
Upgraded evaporator
New Denso Compressor
New Thermostat
New Variable controller
Center Vent


Things I'm keeping
--Rear condenser
--Evaporator Fan (hurricane blower doesn't fit in the 86)
--Front Condenser Fan


Will try and post progress as it goes along. I've heard Griff's instructions are the best in the world - so I'm looking forward to that. :) I've read a lot of threads here on this topic, so not sure I'll be adding anything new - but I have appreciated others stories, so hopefully mine can be helpful to someone else.

I am looking forward to your install. I would like to do the same project on my 86.

+Subscribed - I'm considering the same upgrade for my 83 Targa.

That is a good list. My Griffith's system replaced every single part, except the front and rear condenser, and I guess the front condenser fan. His fan speed switch is great in that it does not go from "is this on" to "yea I feel some air" to full blast.

It is wonderful to drive in 100+ temps and be totally comfortable, and even cold if I crank it to max.

The biggest "trick" to to get all 27 feet of hoses, and the four condensers, and all the other components free of 100% of all the moisture. Long vacuum pulls and a nitrogen purge are they only way to get all the ice.

Subscribed
Have to do this sooner or later on my wifes 79 SC

Good luck. My system was installed in 2008 in my 88 3.2 Cab and has served me very well!

Subbed!

Think that it’s perhaps appropriate for me to summarize my experience with upgrading my A/C on 911’s. So please bear with me.
Back in about 1999, I had my first experience being a passenger in a 993 sitting in traffic in downtown Toronto in 95 degree scorching sun. I was taken aback as to how effective that A/C was.
So when I decided the convert my ‘86 3.2 to a 3.4 Turbo a year later, I thought, well, let’s replace the A/c compressor with a 993 unit, upgrade the hoses and let’s eliminate the rear condenser and replumb with a 993 condenser in the left front fender…a bit tricky with the impact bumper setup and lack of front “nose” that the 993 has. The result was outstanding…..great A/C and power to boot!
Fast forward to 2009 track day at Mosport where yours truly did a pirouette across the grass by corner three right into the wall and ended upside down. Not a scratch on me save for when I ripped my helmet off without undoing the strap. Car was a write-off, insurance finally paid up after a visit to the Ontario Court of Appeal, and I kept the wreck as the Insurance company never laid claim to it.
A year later I started building a backdated longhood, the RST, utilizing much of good parts from the wreck including the same 993 A/C setup and air outlet system (‘86) as in the wreck….post #104 on page 6 of my build thread

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/748639-evolution-carrera-rst.html

shows the general setup. The system works really well despite its oldish technology even without the fan for the belly condenser. And, yes, I did upgrade the evaporator to a Griffiths with even better results.
I’m now building another hot rod, an S/T which will have the full CR setup with two condensers, one in each of the front wheel wells and upgraded CR alternator. I’ll soon be starting this instal

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1126335-sweet-transplant.html

So, looking back, I’ve been around the block so to speak…it will be interesting to compare my two systems once I finally have the S/T on the road, hopefully this fall.
My guess they will be comparable.
M2CW
Cheers,
Johan

I'd recommend sourcing an earlier evaporator blower lid and retrofitting the Hurricane blower. It's a sweet upgrade.

We've installed a bunch of Griffith front condenser fan motors, but I'm anxiously awaiting an upgraded design from Joe Smallwood here on the forum to test out on a client's M491

I just installed a SPAL blower with Joe's 3d printed bell mouth output ducting. i think airflow across front condenser might be 2x, and is now flowing over a wider surface area of the condenser.

One key thing I noticed when installing my hybrid system with front condenser (on a 1985) is that there are some large gaps around the condenser to the body. I used self adhesive weatherstrip foam seal to to force the air through the condenser.

As Tom Petty once said, The waiting is the hardest part..... shipment now scheduled to arrive on Tuesday...

I understand many of you want to DYI the AC upgrade parts.

I was not willing to invent the wheel. Griffith's stuff works, and has been perfects for over a decade, and many long road trips.

With no hesitation I will state his Mr. Cool upgrade was the single best project I ever did to my 911.

Agreed. Living in the South, Griff’s A/C makes the car year-round drivable.

Getting Griff’s Hurricane fan and modifying the evaporator top for the late 80s cars is the way to go. Made a big difference as I didn’t initially do this.

Also, my installer made one error that took me some time to figure out. The temperature sensing probe that gets buried in the core must be away from the edges or it doesn’t sense the deep core temperature. Mine was near the edge, thus warmer than the core, so the compressor never turned off resulting in the freezing of the core. My a/c would be very cold, high 20s, but after about 20 minutes it would start blowing warm air as the core turned into ice. I would have to turn the a/c off and let the ice melt before turning it back on. Once I discovered the probe had been incorrectly installed, I never had an issue again and have consistent vent temps in the low 30s.

Good Luck!

putting together my grifs order now for my sunday funday driver here in SC and and am curious what you guys think:

Will the dual kuehl (2x) condensers in the wheel well combined with the upgraded front condenser be enough to justify deleting the deck lid condenser? OR, would the decklid, single wheel well condenser and new front condenser be better? I would like to be able to delete the decklid condenser and swap between deck lids as simply as possible (dream on?)

Will also be getting upgraded Evap, and already have Grifs blower motor installed with variable speed controller. And a beefy front condenser fan setup.

Funny. I asked charlie about this a lot of times. He didn’t want to answer.

But I will say, the decklid condenser is mostly mounted between the hood hinges with nebular connections to the deck lid itself.

I’ve been moving my 4 condenser setup from my rear-ended 83 911 (totaled) into my 79 SC, a factory AC delete car. I’m about ready to pull a vacuum and see where I’m at. Waiting for ‘the Amazon’ to bring me some r12 to 134 adapters to fit my vacuum pump.

The real issue with the poor AC performance was lack of condenser area. More is better.

The only original parts of my AC is the front and rear condensers. Well, of course the brackets and vents are original.

I test my AC in HOT conditions, as much of the southern US is HOT.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740332944.JPG
Here at the International Space hall of fame, my car sat for an hour in full sun. As always, I parked at the far end of the lot all by myself. It was 107 that day. I hopped into a 130 degree interior. Fired up the engine and went to full cold, hurricane blower. Withing 10 minutes I was comfortable, and in 30 minutes I had to turn the temp up and the fan speed down.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740332944.jpg
It cooled off 2 whole degrees in Roswell that day.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740332944.JPG

I installed his system back in 2008, and 74,000 miles ago and my only regret was I did not do it sooner.

All 5 boxes showed up!! (1 Monday, 4 Tuesday)...

Most securely packaged boxes I have ever received. Stapled and taped. Tons of padding inside. Very well done...

Now it is time to read the huge installation manual Griff provided... might even be able to get some of the work started this week.....

awesome... can't wait to see the progress

Read through it all. He provides the best instructions you have ever had. Take that instruction manual to the garage as you begin the installation. Follow it step by step. He provides every screw, zip tie, and part needed.

You will marvel at the engineering, and say wow, that is a great way to do that as you put it together.

If you can change the oil on your 911, you can do the installation of his system. The only task that the average guy can't do is the charging the system. That is not hard and but the vacuum process to get rid of moisture is the only part different from normal AC system. It is impossible to have too good of a vacuum.

Most of all, enjoy the cool AC this summer.

So started some work this weekend - and made a whole bunch of mistakes right off the bat....

Cracked my Evaporator box getting it out of the smugglers box. Broke retention clips off both the rear defroster and emergency flasher switches taking the plugs off the back getting the console out... cracked the new fan speed switch mounting it in the console! geesh!! I'm a walking disaster. Hopefully some super glue will work on some of it - maybe a patch kit on the evap box (see other thread I started there) -

Evaporator fins were kinda munged up in a few places...

I "evacuated" the system myself - put down towels and such in case dye sprayed out - but when I went to push the Shrader valve, it barely went pffft... there was really no pressure left in the system :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740957076.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740957076.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740957140.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1740957140.jpg

One other tricky thing is placement of the temperature sensing bulb. Check where it was, and try to replicate that position. And read his instructions carefully, and just go step by step. If you are using his new and improved temperature temp control and fan speed switch, getting that large grommet back in place on the firewall is a real challenge. I lubed mine up with lots of lube, and pushed and shoved and cussed a lot.

Use the cracked evap box as an opportunity to insulate the exterior of the box with insulation tape from your favorite home improvement store.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/295666-insulating-evaporator-box-has-anyone-done.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1154042653.jpg

I've actually had that grommet out 2 or 3 times now ... its a bit tricky but not as bad as I thought it might be - I use a small screwdriver to push the last bit in and it seems to go ok...

Griff is being super generous and sending me a new fan speed switch (just the switch) so I will have to solder the wires back on - no big deal.. I better not break this one! :)

I've bought a few switches from Griff, I guess the generosity wears off at some point. I just bought a few high quality switches and I will test them against the 2nd broken one. This one is made of metal.

Got the adjustable under dash vents from Classic Retro... passenger one in... can't get the screws out of the drivers side yet... I'm afraid I'm going to strip them.. need a bigger screwdriver!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741160645.jpg

Made a bit of progress this week ... Lost my Saturday to AX school :)

Took off the rear condenser and flushed it out , resoldered the fan switch.... ...

Removed the front condenser and installed the new one.... Tried to do it without removing the crash bar but it was just too hard to get the bolts back in... I would suggest just removing the bar.. it's pretty simple

The lines were a bit more interesting... I ended up having to partially drop the washer fluid reservoir and cutting one of the old hoses to get the 2 hoses out and back in... Took forever to get the top bolt back in and I gave up getting the clamp back together after like 45 minutes of fighting... Will have to go back to it

One thing I didn't know and I think I messed up .. went to remove the receiver / drier and after loosening the clamps I backed out the screws holding the mounting bracket to the wheel we'll .. didn't realize there were nuts behind there and now I can't remount it :(. Are those nuts now somewhere I can get to?

The other thing no one tells you is how much dirt falls out when you unmount the hoses.... I did a prewash of my wheel well to try and avoid this and still ended up with dirt everywhere.... What a mess!

Up next I guess is the rear wheel well and installing both the condensers there.

I'm not strictly following the suggested order of operations from Griff, mainly just due to the windows of time I have available...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741580253.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741580253.jpg

Can you install rivnuts where the receiver drier mounts? I’m installing AC in a car that never had it and that’s how I mounted mine.

Yea, the worst part of the install is the new hoses. It is a very dirty job to do. I just used wire and some tape, cut the end off the old hose, and taped on the new hose and pulled it through the holes. Still lots of dirt on me and in my face.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741615340.JPG

the receiver dryer should be mounted by worm gear clamps right? how was yours mounted?

I think he means the vertical bracket that these worm clamps attach to. In the PET, this bracket is shown attached to the wheel well by 2 sheet metal screws. No nuts are shown.

Correct - I'll get a picture later - but yes, the clamps are strapped around a bar which is screwed to the back of the wheel well. I heard a distinct "plink" when I backed the screw out of the nut falling inside somewhere...

Self tapping sheet metal screw might be a good solution to remount...

As a side note, this is the first I've done where I see a hint of rust - the bracket has some rust on it... not sure why right here though and no where else...

Picture of the mounting location and bracket

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741635044.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741635044.jpg

I've done this!

You can fish them out with a magnet and reinstall them. It is possible but you may need a friend and a couple of beers.

Lesson learned. Dumb engineering.

Finished the switches in the dash.... Fan turns on at least :)

Painted the drier bracket, squeezed some silicon in the holes and remounted with some sheet metal screws..

Then ran out of time for today :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741835311.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741835311.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741835311.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741835311.jpg

Got the Rear Fender condenser installed - I hate drilling into my perfectly good car... and working with some of those small nuts and bolts is more work than it should be...

got the 1 mounting bolt for the Duehl Kuehl (front of the wheel well) put in thru the seatbelt retractor - again, more difficult than it probably should have been... having to take apart the trim panels and such just to get to the bolt... and working with the car up on stands - only on the left side, so the door wouldn't stay open :) ...

Next is to finish that condenser- mounting it up to the torsion bar cover.. and then I think getting the evap box remounted and all the hoses ...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741935143.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1741935143.jpg

Lot of progress tonight.... basically got the left side of the car finished... both rear condensers in, plumbed and wired... ran into a snag mounting the one in front of the rear wheel - when getting the nyloc nut on, it was fairly tight and started backing out the seat belt bolt. so had to go back inside and hold that down while working the nut on the outside - get an extra set of hands.. much easier :)

Got the drier installed and plumbed, along with the front condenser--- some of the hose routing is a pain, but it all ends up fitting.

Hint when trying to push the hose up from the wheel well to the engine bay... stick a flash light in the engine bay so from underneath you can see where the hose is supposed to go.. :) made the job 10x easier...

Still need to cut all the zip ties :)

Next is to get the hoses into the evap box (I really don't want to take the skid plate off...) and run the hose down the right side of the car.. replace the compressor... put the rock guards on... at least 1 or 2 more days...

Need to reinstall the deck lid condenser - I kept my original one... I did a flush but it says to blow it out with compressed air - I don't have a compressor.. but I can still hear some sort of liquid in it.. ...



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1742020075.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1742020075.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1742020075.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1742020075.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1742020075.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1742020075.jpg

looking good! nice work. I had a lot of fun when I installed my Griffiths kit

I installed Griffiths system several years ago and a/c still works great. What’s the purpose of the thick rubber flap over the wheel well condenser. Mine is ripping and I’m wondering if I can just remove it.

Mine is a sheet of plastic, I cut to shape to protect the condensers from rocks and debris thrown up from the tires. Mine has been in place for 18 years, and many 10s of thousands of miles.

His instructions have all the details on the shape to cut from the plastic with a jig saw.