Engine Oils Fact or Fiction

[28tbsfan]

My mechanic, who was considered reputable at one time, is dead set on the fact he has lost multiple engine rebuilds over the past two years due to new standards for engine oil.

He has had two rods fail in the crank post rebuild twice and claims the remedy is a larger 964 Oil pump and use Lucas Hot Rod oil. The mechanic mentioned he’s been rebuilding Porsche engines for 30 years, relatively the same way, yet now they are all failing. I’m curious if others are seeing this with rebuilt rebuilt engines regarding the oil or my mechanic is just way past his prime.

[Duc Hunter]

Seems....strange to me. Valveoline VR-1, Castrol dyno oil in 20-50, Liquimolly 10-16......lot's of oils are very reputable out here and work very well with no issues. Not running an oil designed for older motors, with the ingredients they need, can be an issue over the long term. Not sure they would cause short term issues on a rebuild. In my little bit of experience.....can lobe wear it a common issue with the "wrong" oil.

[PeteKz]

Fiction. See the reply on your parallel thread.

[28tbsfan]

Originally Posted by Duc Hunter

Seems....strange to me. Valveoline VR-1, Castrol dyno oil in 20-50, Liquimolly 10-16......lot's of oils are very reputable out here and work very well with no issues. Not running an oil designed for older motors, with the ingredients they need, can be an issue over the long term. Not sure they would cause short term issues on a rebuild. In my little bit of experience.....can lobe wear it a common issue with the "wrong" oil.

Yes, it seems odd to me too he claims he’s been rebuilding engines for 30 years the same way but all of a sudden is losing engines over the past couple years because of the ingredients being taken out of oils.

[dictoresno]

Originally Posted by 28tbsfan

Yes, it seems odd to me too he claims he’s been rebuilding engines for 30 years the same way but all of a sudden is losing engines over the past couple years because of the ingredients being taken out of oils.

and was considered "reputable at one time", but apparently not now.

if anything, oils have gotten better over time (base stock and additive packages), so I doubt anything on the oil side is ruining his builds.

what oil was he using "before" the issues stared happening and what oils were his new builds using when they failed?

[Ian Comerford]

The wisdom does seem to be that modern oils are better, but are they just better for modern engines with tighter tolerances, so not necessarily better for older engines with less tight tolerances? I’m not saying this is the case as there’s always much conjecture on oils but it could be the case.

[E Sully]

Modern Oils are better for modern GDI and turbo engines, but definitely not for flat tappet engines. There are good oils for our flat tappet engines, but chemistry changes all the time. Diesel oils are no longer good due to chemistry changes for modern Diesel engines emission requirements.
I had a Thread about the science behind oils today, but for some reason one of the Moderators decided to close it and merge parts of it into another oil thread with no explanation.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 28tbsfan

My mechanic, who was considered reputable at one time, is dead set on the fact he has lost multiple engine rebuilds over the past two years due to new standards for engine oil.

He has had two rods fail in the crank post rebuild twice and claims the remedy is a larger 964 Oil pump and use Lucas Hot Rod oil. The mechanic mentioned he’s been rebuilding Porsche engines for 30 years, relatively the same way, yet now they are all failing. I’m curious if others are seeing this with rebuilt rebuilt engines regarding the oil or my mechanic is just way past his prime.

There is a very wide selection of oils available out there.

It's not at all helpful or informative to not list which specific oil he has a problem w/

[pmax]

It's beginning to look a lot like an oil thread !

[PeteKz]

Yeah, this is getting highjacked. He was asking about the rod bearings failing, and that ain't due to the oil, modern or ancient.

[rwest]

I would be more inclined to blame the quality of bearings before I blamed the oil.

[Bill Verburg]

I’m curious if others are seeing this with rebuilt rebuilt engines regarding the oil or my mechanic is just way past his prime.

he did ask about oil

[porschedude996]

I would think that if there was such a problem with the newer oil, that it would affect the cam lobes and rockers before the rod and main bearings. I use an additive with ZDDP which modern oils don’t have. Removed by the “Greenies”. It is a must with Flat tappet lifters of yesteryear. I also find it criminal that the feds are forcing auto manufacturers to have a corporate average fuel mileage across the fleet. CAFE is total BS. Each manufacturer has a product line. They sell or don’t sell cars based on what the public wants to buy. Everything is not equal. To get to the acceptable BS CAFE value, they use a thinner oil and boom! Sometimes is doesn’t work. Case in point, GM’s current dilemma with LS engine failures. I doubt that using any good modern multi viscosity (10-40 of 20-50) oil with ZDDP would fail if the engine is assembled properly and treated respectfully.

[ant7]

Many years ago I was working for an engine reconditioning company, and we started having an odd problem with GM engines using lots of oil after rebuilds, we tried different types of running in oil etc, nothing seemed to work, the engines would not smoke on start up, or if you revved them up standing still, however; once you got them out on the open road, they would go through oil dramatically, anyway, long story short, it turned out the guy that was boring the cylinders in the blocks had his settings wrong for this particular engine type, therefore the piston ring to cylinder gap was larger than it should have been.
Ant.

[28tbsfan]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

There is a very wide selection of oils available out there.

It's not at all helpful or informative to not list which specific oil he has a problem w/

Everyone oil that removed Zinc and other additives. He recommended Lucas HotRod, due to its increase in velocity and zinc. Something about a 2020 government mandate?

[stownsen914]

If you do a search, you'll find lots of recommendations on this forum for oils that work well in our vintage engines. Not saying Lucas HotRod isn't good oil or anything, but I've not heard that name come up.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 28tbsfan

Everyone oil that removed Zinc and other additives. He recommended Lucas HotRod, due to its increase in velocity and zinc. Something about a 2020 government mandate?

This has all been explained in detail many times, I'm not going to repeat it.

A suggestion to you, do some research
here in the search section use "oil' or "ZDDP' as search targets, you will have to do a lot of reading and decide for yourself who to pay attention to

another great source is Lake Speed he has an oil analysis business but has also posted extensively on Youtube, well worth read or watching

w/regard to Lucas oils, from what I've seen they are a bit above the high end of what what you want for a 20w-50 oil much Zinc & Phosphorus(ZDDP)

generally you want between 1100 -1200 ppm ZDDP, out side that range wear increases Lucas 20w/50 is 1600 ppm Z per their advertising, they didn't mention P in the blurb I saw

break in oi,l for short term use, is often ~2000ppm +/- ZDDP

[E Sully]

It's important to note that just checking ZDDP levels is not enough. Lake Speed Jr talks about this in one of his videos. As I mentioned previously diesel oils may have good levels of ZDDP, but newer formulations have higher levels of detergents and dispersants to control soot which negatively affect flat tappet engines.

[stownsen914]

Worth noting that yeah ZDDP is important for our engines, for cam wear. Not for rod bearings.

This dude is claiming modern oil is causing rod bearing failures. That doesn't even make sense, high levels of ZDDP aren't required for rod bearings.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by stownsen914

Worth noting that yeah ZDDP is important for our engines, for cam wear. Not for rod bearings.

This dude is claiming modern oil is causing rod bearing failures. That doesn't even make sense, high levels of ZDDP aren't required for rod bearings.

The "dude" is a pro mechanic shop.

ZDDP was brought up by the replies here not them.

If opinions from those who rebuild engines don't count, whose does ?