Source for Kendall NS-MP 80W90? Seems discontinued...

[fanaudical]

Well, I guess this is yet another oil thread...

I have some remnants of a case of the Kendal NS-MP and have been casually looking for a replacement for when that's gone.

I'm a LiquiMoly fan; their oil-finder database points toward this stuff (mineral-oil GL5):

https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/us/hypoid-gear-oil-gl5-sae-85w-90-p000216.html#tab-label-approvalsandspecifications-title

I haven't tried it yet. I have compared this to the Shell Spirax MB90 and all the tech specs are very, very close. Here are the tech data sheets for both:

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pdf/en_US/liqui/51/P000216

https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/de-AT/d8eb48c9-0b91-4b59-89b9-76903279f133.pdf

Swepco 201 datasheet for reference:

https://swepcolube.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SWEPCO-201-Multi-Purpose-Gear-Lube.pdf

I have tried finding a TDS for the Super Tech 80w90 and haven't located one.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Black 993

On a 911 gearbox, i.e. the transmission before the 915?

In 1973, it was a 915. 901's (with the cool dogleg) were last installed in 911's in 1971.

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by schulisco

swepco 201 is available in several viscosities. Which one exactly did you used? Sae80w90 or sae90?

https://swepcolube.com/products/swepco-201-multi-purpose-gear-lube/ (see on the tech data sheet in the "technical data" tab)

80w90

[fetus]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Not the same thing. The LSD additive doesn’t play nice with the synchros in 901, 915, and 930.

Curious what the issue is? I have a wavetrac LSD in a 1986 915 trans and use the Kendall LSD gear oil. It seemed to shift better than Swepco so I kept using it.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by fetus

Curious what the issue is? I have a wavetrac LSD in a 1986 915 trans and use the Kendall LSD gear oil. It seemed to shift better than Swepco so I kept using it.

Wavetrac isn't an LSD, it's a TBD. It has no clutches in it that a friction modifier would "help".

Feeling better doesn't mean anything with respect to wear. Above when I mention that I only put my racing customers in Swepco it's because it shifts poorly when cold. When hot during racing, it better protects from wear, and doesn't shift the same as it does on the street where 2/3 of people don't even drive the car long enough to get the gearbox up to full temp.

I remember there was a time where everyone and their mother was putting Redline into their Porsche gearboxes. You'd see people raving about how good they shifted. On the service side of things, we saw what they looked like inside and they were getting shredded.

[Black 993]

Matt what gear oil do you recommend for a street-driven early car with a non-LSD 911 (or 901, as they are also called) gearbox?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Black 993

Matt what gear oil do you recommend for a street-driven early car with a non-LSD 911 (or 901, as they are also called) gearbox?

I asked him this earlier in the thread and here’s his answer:

“Same as I’ve said for a long time. Walmart Supertech 80w90 conventional gear oil in the blue jug. It’s made by Mobil. Valvoline and Catsrol also both have conventional oils still.

I recommend Swepco to my racing customers. But I don’t drive it on the street.

For a few years I’ve been posting about the changes to that NS Kendall gear oil. I think it was Phillips who bought them? It changed to semi-synthetic a year or two later. I hadn’t heard it was discontinued, but it might be.”

[rwest]

I just went to both Castrol’s and Valvoline’s websites and neither had a recommended gear oil for our earlier 911s. If memory serves, the earliest gearbox listed was 1997.

[Matt Monson]

This is the Valvoline I was thinking of.

https://shop.valvolineglobal.com/collections/conventional-gear-oil?srsltid=AfmBOop-C50ii8TnVytjatSERX4XHqNXlyvq5V3w1p9o1XI5N1_ndH4w

[Matt Monson]

And this is the castrol.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/castrol/castrol-conventional-gear-oil-80w-90-1-quart/cas0/8090?srsltid=AfmBOors0Plczpwi_16CWy1L4UZIcSeO4sxcE R_nWZ11ugnmuQbe5QZW

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

And this is the castrol.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/castrol/castrol-conventional-gear-oil-80w-90-1-quart/cas0/8090?srsltid=AfmBOors0Plczpwi_16CWy1L4UZIcSeO4sxcE R_nWZ11ugnmuQbe5QZW

That link shows an oil for an LSD transmission. Castrol does have a conventional gear box oil, but doesn’t appear O’Reilys caries it.

[Rivet]

Powersports/motorcycles have similar gear oil requirements and the industry is a good source for trans oils. They are non synchronized (no brass, dog gear synced), have a bevel (straight cut as well) gear primary drive similar to a ring and pinion. And depending on which oil, designed for wet multi plate clutch packs.

I have been using Bel Ray gear saver motorcycle oil in my 915. GL-5, non synthetic, 80w90. Not for wet clutch.

https://www.belray.com/product/gear-saver-hypoid-gear-oil/

Easily available from any motorcycle shop and usually on the shelf, but here is a link to amazon for easy lookup.

https://a.co/d/4dE95bb



These non synthetic options I have not tried personally but would be options for LSD 915s.

80w85 Thumper trans oil that is designed for competition dirtbikes with wet multiplate clutches.

https://www.belray.com/product/thumper-gear-saver-transmission-oil/

And they also have a trans oil that is straight 85w (listed on SDS) called Sport transmission fluid that is also designed for wet multiplate clutches.

https://www.belray.com/product/sport-transmission-fluid/

All of these oils are designed for extreme shock and gear load.


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[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by rwest

That link shows an oil for an LSD transmission. Castrol does have a conventional gear box oil, but doesn’t appear O’Reilys caries it.

Sorry, I didn’t drill down all the way in the description. But as you found the sand oil is available non-lsd as well.

[917_Langheck]

Odd how no one wants to buy the Porsche official oil.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELTFLUIDKIT911.htm?pn=PEL-TFLUIDKIT-911&srsltid=AfmBOor-Y2_A65yNX_EsCrchuQlRr1ICZlcwaBs2N9DPxJCOWll3bY2u

Only 200$! And includes new plugs!!

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by Rivet

Powersports/motorcycles have similar gear oil requirements and the industry is a good source for trans oils. They are non synchronized (no brass, dog gear synced), have a bevel (straight cut as well) gear primary drive similar to a ring and pinion. And depending on which oil, designed for wet multi plate clutch packs.

I have been using Bel Ray gear saver motorcycle oil in my 915. GL-5, non synthetic, 80w90. Not for wet clutch.

https://www.belray.com/product/gear-saver-hypoid-gear-oil/

Easily available from any motorcycle shop and usually on the shelf, but here is a link to amazon for easy lookup.

https://a.co/d/4dE95bb





These non synthetic options I have not tried personally but would be options for LSD 915s.

80w85 Thumper trans oil that is designed for competition dirtbikes with wet multiplate clutches.

https://www.belray.com/product/thumper-gear-saver-transmission-oil/

And they also have a trans oil that is straight 85w (listed on SDS) called Sport transmission fluid that is also designed for wet multiplate clutches.

https://www.belray.com/product/sport-transmission-fluid/

All of these oils are designed for extreme shock and gear load.


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Thanks for that info - I had a hell of a time finding the right non-hypo I’d gear oil for my BMW E12 earlier this year. This helps.

[Schulisco]

Otter74, I wouldn't do that. Any oil has its own purpose. Motorcycle oils have different duties than car oils. They have to deal with wet clutches which most cars won't have (aside of double clutched car gearboxes). Mostly gear and engine oil on a motorcycle are in the same housing. Okay that Bel Ray is a transmission oil only. But still - I wouldn't use it in a car gearbox.
Here's a video talking about engine oils and crossed usage in cars&motorcycles. I expect the same for transmission oils:
https://youtu.be/1DxZq7ISeSE

Thomas

[shoooo32]

Apples and oranges, Thomas. The video is referring to engine oils and makes a few valid points. However, our 911 gearboxes have more in common with a v-twin Harley than they do a new 911.

Bel Ray's GL5 rated hypoid gear oil (85w140) has stood up to the extreme conditions we've put it though with no adverse affects to the internals. Sure it takes a minute to warm up and will shift a little clunky until then, but you're waiting for the engine oil to warm before attacking the far side of the tachometer anyway. Once everything is up to temp you can beat it like a rented mule knowing your gearbox is protected.

Also, these aren't lifetime fill or even a G50 with longer fluid intervals. I recommend changing it at least every 15k miles. Bel Ray is inexpensive - I swap it out after every rally (typically 5k miles). Total cost for bearings for a 915 are well over $1k now, what's an extra $40 for gear oil. I don't have skin in the game - I build 915s for fun to support fellow rally dorks. Y'all do whatever you want. I'm just sharing my experiences.

[Matt Monson]

I’d use the motorcycle oil suggested in my gearbox.

[ErrorMargin]

I had my 915 rebuilt at California Motorsports last year. They mandate Swepco 201 80w-90 only for transmissions they rebuild.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/SWE20180W90.htm?pn=SWE-201-80W90

They also require transmission fluid changes every 10k miles.

[winders]

Swepco 210....it works better in the cold and the hot compared to 201...