Can I use this Fuse block to update to blade type fuses?

[yeuporsch]

http://www.wiringproducts.com/?target=dept_96.html


Has anyone use this?

Thanks,

John

[Wil Ferch]

they can be used...just make sure you buy the kind ( like the first few shown) that allow individual feed and take-offs....some use a single "ganged" input.

Look up "Fred Cook" for a class-act upgrade using ATO style / blade style fuses.....

- Wil

[911pcars]

Their 6 and 8 fuse blocks w/transparent cover look doable. The issue is how neat and tidy you can install the wire terminals and route the connections to and from the new fuse block. The object is to make this area more, not less reliable.

Sherwood

[Grady Clay]

John,

What year/model? What is your application (racer, restoration, other)?

Best,
Grady

[hobieboy]

What a timely thread... I have just started searching for a fuse block the last 2 days !
I also come across this block but it looks like it has a single input then "bus-ed" to other fuses.
Anyone knows where I can get one that allows me to individually wire each of the fuses?
thanks...

P.S. I'm doing this as I need to wire my new ECU and thought I'll clean up the un-used circuits while upgrading to the more reliable ATC type fuses.

[Wil Ferch]

Look up "Fred Cook" ...like I said...and embedded within are the Norway sourced/Chinese made individual fuse holders for $1 each..or so.

I also found the original Chinese source but they needed a 5000 minimum order too....

- Wil

[Wil Ferch]

look here ---> http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=194614&highlight=fred+cook+AND+fuse

- Wil

[DUK]

Don't know if they sell just the fuse block. But watson street works does a complete harness with blade style fuses.

[911pcars]

"I also come across this block but it looks like it has a single input then "bus-ed" to other fuses. Anyone knows where I can get one that allows me to individually wire each of the fuses?"

According to their description:
"Fuse blocks are used with ATO/ATC style fuses. Clear plastic dust cover included. Used for power distribution in a variety of applications. 12 Volts DC, Max load per fuse 30 amps._ Max load capacity for all circuits combined is 50 amps._ Connections are made via 1/4" male blade connectors that enter and exit from the sides."

Sherwood

[hobieboy]

Sherwood,
I hear ya... my suspicion came from the "50amp total for all circuits" statement.

Its probably a simple phone call to verify when I have a chance tomorrow.

[fred cook]

I think that you probably could use this type of fuse block....but the factory fuse cover won't work with them. Also, check the load that is being pulled at each fuse and make certain that a 20 amp max fuse will handle the load. When I did my conversion, I had to put the condenser fan and evaporator fan on separate fuses. Failure to stay under the 20 amp load level will result in blown fuses or melted holders. I still believe the best type to use are the ones that come from Norway via Ove (a PelicanParts board member). They are individual fuse holders so you will have to build a base to mount them on, but the original black plastic fuse cover will still work.

[hobieboy]

Fred, any suggestion how we can get the holders that you purchased?

TIA

[BoogieOnSkis]

I also found the original Chinese source but they needed a 5000 minimum order too....

The company is located in Taipei, Taiwan. I contacted them directly and got the same response, minimum 5000 order.

However, there are ways around this. They will deal with you if you can speak the language and can pick up them up at their facility. I used to travel to Taiwan for business and had the help of a friend to get what I wanted. I bought the model that's made of the phenolic material so that I don't have to deal with the 20A load limit.

Unfortunately, I don't travel there any more.

[RickM]

Originally posted by BoogieOnSkis
The company is located in Taipei, Taiwan. I contacted them directly and got the same response, minimum 5000 order.

However, there are ways around this. They will deal with you if you can speak the language and can pick up them up at their facility. I used to travel to Taiwan for business and had the help of a friend to get what I wanted.

Unfortunately, I don't travel there any more.

So I take it this manufacturer doesn't sell to North American distributors. Correct?

[BoogieOnSkis]

So I take it this manufacturer doesn't sell to North American distributors. Correct?

I asked them that 2 years ago and they said they had no N.A. distributors. Things change; you might want to ask them.

[911pcars]

"my suspicion came from the "50amp total for all circuits" statement."

The 50A max is for the fuse block that only holds 4 fuses.

Their 6 gang fuse block has a total capacity of 65 amps.
Their 8 gang fuse block has a total capacity of 80 amps.

BTW, Waytekwire.com has 12 gang versions of this fuse box. Wiringproducts.com doesn't seem to carry them (according to their website).

Most 911s will use one or a combination of these 4, 6, 8 or 12 gang fuse blocks. These capacities should be fine for most applications unless you're trying to power 3-4 sets of Oscar driving lights or multiple E-Ram fans. In those cases, you're beyond the capacity of the factory system anyway and must use multiple relays with a high capacity fuse box. High power audio amps, for example, should connect straight to the battery terminal with their own fuse.

Ideally, one should duplicate the same fuse positions as the factory fuse block(s) (makes electrical diagnosis easier using the factory wiring schematics) and hopefully not run into a case where you have multiple high-amp fused circuits in a row (20+ amps). I wouldn't think an engineer would route circuits to a fuse box like that, but I can't speak for all the fuse box layouts PAG produced. However, there was an infamous EE company with the name "Lucas". Most manufacturers should have learned from that period of history.

One very trick version of the ATO and ATM (mini) fuse contains an LED that goes ON when the fuse blows. Makes it easier to spot a blown fuse when it's in a hard to reach or see area.

Sherwood

[304065]

Not to be a bolshevik here, but other than aesthetics, what is the reason for changing the fuse block? For a 911 with a properly sorted electrical system you aren't going to be popping fuses. I think I have had one short in the last five years, between the turn signal bulb carrier and the tachometer body, which of course led to a second blown fuse when I was testing it.

If it were me, I would spend an equivalent amount of time/money cleaning the individual copper fuse holders and bending them to hold the fuses tight. If you get really into it you can loosen the set screws, remove the box and soak the entire fuse board in corrosion-x, scrub it down and put everything back together with the correct yellow paint on the set screws. The original German bullet fuses are widely available at your FLAPS. Pull off the turn signal lenses and clean the connectors and grounds, and work over the 14-pin connector while you're in there.

If I were looking to buy a 911 that had the fuse panel replaced I would run, not walk. Unless you did it yourself, what are the odds that everything got put back in the right location? You'd be looking at hours with the wiring diagram before you could diagnose any electrical problems just to baseline the setup you had.

My .02.

[fred cook]

John makes some very good points. Indeed, why change out an antiquated fuse block for new technology? The main reasons that pushed me into the job were 1) poor maintenace by previous owners, 2) increasingly frequent circuit failures due to corrosion and high resistance at connection points and 3) the desire to be able to use the ATO type fuses.

The first hurdle of course is finding suitable fuse holders. Once that was resolved, I spent about a month studying the wiring in my car and verifying what each wire was for. Before removing the first wire from the blocks, I tagged each wire by location so there would be no question where it belonged. Next, I built the base plate for the fuse holders and assembled the new fuse block. Once all of the above was done, I then removed the wires from the old fuse block, cut them back about 10mm to eliminate corrosion and put new connectors on the ends by crimping and soldering. Where needed, I built jumpers to replicate the ones on the back of the old block. Plugging the (tagged) wires back into the new block was very easy and straight forward (all the hard work had been done). The last step was to plug in appropriate capacity fuses and reconnect the battery. Initial attention to detail paid off as everything worked as it should first time out.
Since the ATO fuses have a much greater contact area than the bullet style fuses, corrosion, high resistance and heat should be a thing of the past.

The last step was to put a copy of the new fuse panel wiring info into the back of the owners manual in the glovebox.

[Grady Clay]

John (Cramer),

You are right on. That was the reason for my question above.

Here is the early (SWB) fuse block.



The early fuse block (’65-’68) is prone to corrosion failures as
others. The formed “rivet” connections are long-term subject
to corrosion. This occurs in two different places. First is the
spring fuse connection is crimped under the wire terminal and
corrosion occurs there. Second, there are three back-side
connections between fuses on the source side that can corrode
to the wire terminals. If there is any corrosion, resistance
results and the connection gets hot. Typically this damages
the phenolic base and releases the “rivet” connection. This
becomes progressive until the connection is lost – usually
ruining the entire assembly.

I haven’t done a search here, Rennlist or Early-S but I suspect
this issue has been addressed.

There needs to be a way to “rebuild” the OE fuse block. This
should both restore the original function, allow greater current
capacity (to use high power headlights), and prevent any future
deterioration.

OE assemblies are very dear!


The only time I would consider altering this from Factory original
is in a race car built from scratch with simplified wiring.

Best,
Grady

[Wil Ferch]

This is one of the very few times that Grady and I part company ( in principle).

The "suppository" fuses are an abomination, with minimal contact area at the ends. The riveted construction of the fuse board was mentioned ( by me and others) before as being a problem area. The ATO style are much superior ( technically)..and isn't technical superiority a pact-in-parcel part of the Porsche experience ?? The suppository fuses also take up a huge amount of space , and were in use since the 30's I believe.

Kinda like Rolls-Royce using stem-wound fuse connections with wires-between-posts through the 60's...and refusing to change when all others around them already have....yuck !

- Wil