Brake upgrade on 88 G 50 model

[platas]

Hello, i need some help, i just bought my first newer porsche 88 carrera coupe. I have always had and still do early 911, but well i just wanted a newer one.
I want to upgrade the brakes on it, but dont know what is best, brembos or if there is a less expensive way to upgrade the brakes.
Open to all suggestions guys, also want to get more HP out of it with out going into the engine.
Thanks in advance and open to all suggestions!

[911 heathen]

Hi Platas
Stick with the stock calipers but get quality slotted rotors (not drilled) and pads.
EBC or Performance Friction for example.

Since these cars don't have ABS, no point in getting into a 4 piston system....

BUT others on this board may have other opinions!!!

Cheers
James

[KTL]

Do search and you'll find a lot of alternatives. Brembo GTP, 930 Turbo Brakes, Big Reds, different variations of "custom" 993 or 964 or 944 Turbo setups, Boxster brake kit from TRE,............... it's been covered a lot around here.

That being said, I did the 993 brakes on my car and it's a bit of work. Front required factory '95 993 calipers (adapted to fit the stock mountings), Wilwood HD 309x32 rotors with adapter hats and fasteners, new hardlines bent to make the hyd. connection. Rear required modified factory 993 rear calipers, 930 rotors and new hardlines for the connection. Also had to install a 930 boosted 23.8mm master cylinder, remove the pressure limiting valve, find wheels to fit over the new brakes, install some thin spacers for the rear wheels, buy appropriate pads for new calipers........... it adds up quick.

[Bill Verburg]

What Kevin did is the most bang for the buck out there

[911 heathen]

Bill and Kevin, you guys look to be hard core trackers; for street, those mods mentioned might be a bit OTT? I think our friend in Spain is a street driver, like myself....

[Jim Smolka]

IMHO, for most street applications, the stock brakes should be fine. After all, in PCA F-Class stock class racing, the orginal brake calipers must be used. Besides, one of the biggest factors in braking is the friction between the tires and the road.

Now, if one wants to simply put big brakes on a car, then there are all sorts of options. Some options depend on the amount of maintenance one wants to perform. I have an Outlaw set of front brakes on the 3.6 SC and I have been very pleased. The main reason for the upgrade is the pad life since the SC sees some DE time.

[stormmaster]

what James said.......my 87 Carrera has Drilled rotors and it is all the brake I need...also have braided lines....other than that....stock

[Driver8]

Stock brakes and the proper cooling will work well on the track. I second slotted rotors with a good pad and fresh fluid. If it is for street use the stock set up is more then enough.

[KTL]

Agreed on the street use issue. Stock brakes are more than adequate by a long shot. They are VERY good. Just not quite up to the task of track use for a heavy footed kludge like me. By no means am I a hardcore tracker. I just like working on stuff.

A group of friends run their stock brakes on SCs and Carreras with R tires, with the downsides being cooked dust boots and some leaking calipers following some hard DE track days. I learned my lesson cooking brake pads that weren't up to the task of hard braking (Ferodo DS2500) on a somewhat heavy street tire equipped car like my '87. So I figured i'd forego the incremental attempts at solving my brake problems (pads, cooling, spendy fluid) by doing the whole shebang and be done with it.

Don't get me wrong. The right pads, cooling and fluid are certainly important. But additional thermal reserve of bigger rotors, pads is the best solution. Thus the pads, cooling, fluid can then make the brakes perform even better and last longer.

[911 heathen]

Whenever I let someone drive my car, they are surprised at the apparent lack of braking power and it has been asked "whats wrong with the brakes?" It's that typical wooden feel you get with these cars.

But when we swap seats, they then change their minds and freak at the possible late braking; the beauty with the 911 set up is they need and love a decent shove on the pedal. Even with the stock set up, there is more than enough to lock it up....

So along with quality rotors and pads, get a Stairmaster or do squats as it's all in the leg!

[JeremyD]

I think the whole thing depends on the mission.

Agressive street/looks - paint the stock calipers red, decent pads and crossdrilled zimmerman rotors.

For the track you can go to 930/993 or brembos. I also went with the 993 brakes but also drive my car on a pretty unforgiving track.

Best advice is to start with Bill's Brake page - http://home.nycap.rr.com/wmv/generalbrmd.htm

then decided what your long term plans are.

My brakes went from (agressive street) to track...

[Kahuna]

I love this, the poor guy asks for help on how to upgrade his brakes and half of you jump in telling him he doesn't need to do this. True or not, that isn't what the guy wants to know You are all certainly entitled but ....

[911 heathen]

Yeah, this is the beauty of such a forum; no point spending huge bucks when you don't need to.

But Platas asks for engine mods; for any serious power gains in a 3.2, now we are talking big bucks.....

[KTL]

Originally posted by Kahuna
I love this, the poor guy asks for help on how to upgrade his brakes and half of you jump in telling him he doesn't need to do this. True or not, that isn't what the guy wants to know You are all certainly entitled but ....

Applications for Moderator can be filled out in Room 302, 2nd Floor of Administrative Services Division.................... Just kidding.

Everybody's just trying to give their advice, based on experience. I can vouch for the suggestion that it's best to consider what one's intentions are.

I went through my whole brake system when I first got my car, refreshing most everything to like new condition. Now here I am pulling it all off to go to bigger stuff. Best to do what you're ultimately gonna do from the get-go instead of doing things twice like me.

[p911dad]

A relatively inexpensive upgrade is the black Boxster calipers & pads front and rear over the stock Carrera rotors. You will need front and rear mounting brackets with new brake lines and maybe the 930 master cylinder upgrade. It installs with only moderate ingenuity and mechanical skills, and fits over the stock 16" wheels. This opinion will get hammered by the race guys because it doesn't add much increase in braking effectiveness, but IMHO it looks and feels right, and will not empty the bank. Plus, if you have the original calipers and master cylinder, they are nearing the end of their service life anyway.

[theclaw]

Keep going guys. I recently posted a brake problem and it looks like I have some work to do myself. I would be asking the same question platas has asked. I haven't done a big search yet so these opinions are very helpful.

I've been leaning toward the Boxster callipers ever since reading an article in 911 & Porsche World. I'll have to dig that one up.

Jeff

[Bill Verburg]

If you are going to use the Boxster calipers do what this guy did
in this thread on Rennlist

312x24mm rotors w/ aluminum hats

[ChrisBennet]

Tires (not brakes) stop you.

Big brakes are heavy unsprung weight - the worst kind.

Rotor mass is what determines how many stops you can make before boiling your brakes.

Changing calipers doesn't make that much difference. According to Steve Weiner, the Boxster caliper "upgrade" is really a downgrade because it causes the brakes to fade faster.

-Chris

[Bill Verburg]

Chris, yes, the usual Boxster "upgrade" is mostly bling, the calipers are great and quite light, but the Carrera rotors don't bring much to the table. In addition about the same performance can be obtained from using a stock Carrera front caliper and rotor.

The nice thing about Pete's kit is he does increase the rotor mass and potential brake torque w/o imposing too much of a weight penalty. The heavier rotor is compensated for by the lighter caliper. This path is similar the one that Hayden took on his wonderful Wevo brakes

The weight penalty thing is often overemphasized any way. If you are running out of brake half way through a session you need more brake, period.

Yes, you need to try all the other things like cooling, pads and fluid first, but bottom line is, if you need em you need em.

It's great that the gifted drivers out there don't.

[Lewis Ledyard]

I have Steve Timmins' 996 TT brake conversion on my '88. It is not a track car. People might say that it is overkill, but I definitely prefer the way they feel and the way they stop the car over the stock brakes. Here is the link:


http://www.instant-g.com/Products/Brakes/996tt/index.html