3.2, loss of power, blue smoke, then recovers to normal??

mschuep · 11-01-2006, 07:20 AM

Here is the story folks...

Drove the car early on a chilly Sunday morning, approximately 60 miles on the highway. No problems.

Car then sat for 1 hour, restarted fine, drove approximately 5 miles on the highway, then noticed a loss of power. No pop or boom or wierd engine noise was noticed. Felt like the same cylinder was missing over and over from the rythm of the engine lightly shaking the car.

Pulled off of highway and noticed blue smoke from exhaust on exit ramp.

Took a look and didn't see anything unusual in engine bay or beneath. Oil pressure normal, oil level normal, oil temp normal. Slowly got the car back up to speed, hit the cruise control, 5-10 miles later the problem went away.

Troubleshooting thus far:

-Found a slightly fouled spark plug on cylinder #5 (likely the cylinder that was misfiring)
-Checked all headstuds and rockers and valve clearances, all ok, clean and tight
-Drained and changed oil, smelled like gas, but no strange parts floating around
-Checked resistance on cap, rotor, plug wires, plugs, all ok

Went for a 1/2 our drive last night with new oil, no problems.

'85 Carrera, 34,000 miles (10,000 in the past year), oil consumption approximately 1 quart per 6000 miles, oil and filter and valve adjust 1000 miles ago. (Castrol GTX 10W-40, Mahle OC-54)

What are some ideas as to where the oil and gas are mixing? My first thoughts were a broken headstud, cylinder ring, or valve guide, but those aren't things that typically fix themselves. Next on my list is a compression test, what else can I do?

kfitz911 · kfitz911's Garage

Matt,

Too funny - I just posted a "help" with the same type of thing happening to my '86. Cuts out for a period on and off then recovers and runs fine. If it quits, smoke does come out of the pipe for a bit while trying to restart, but seems to be fuel. Dealer in area strongly thinks the cracks in the cap and rotor are to blame as moisture can enter with air and condense after sitting and getting hot. Then spark jumps and such until moisture is burnt away. With no moisture in there the car runs great. Sound familiar?

I ordered a new cap and rotor, but as you know it'll be a while before symptom will arrise again. So if this fixes it, I'll let you know. But what might happen is that it will act fine for the next two weeks and, hopefully not, start cutting out again out of the blue.

My car is similar in miles and condition to yours, it seems. Weird stuff. Let me know what you find out - I'll watch this post.

Thanks and good luck!

Kevin

wcc · 11-01-2006, 07:50 AM

If you think it's moisture in your cap and rotor just spray WD-40 in there to displace any water. You'll know if the cap and rotor are the problem cause it'll clear up right away.

mschuep · 11-01-2006, 07:53 AM

Hmmm. That is interesting, and I would love it if my only problem was condensation in the dist. cap. I did replace the cap about 1.5 years ago, but I'll take a closer look to be sure it is not cracked.....The blue smoke is what scares me.

kfitz911 · kfitz911's Garage

Yeah, but nothing is pointing to internal issues and the blue smoke is somewhat mis-leading as it was probably more white-ish than blue. Un-burnt fuel in the cylinders that weren't firing could cause that going through a hot muffler? I am sure there is some oil residue in the cylinder too, along with the muffler? I am just guessing here, but since I brought my car to the local dealer here and had the mechanic ride along with me for 15-20 minutes while explaining the whole story and symptoms, then they dove under the hood to look at specific wire shorting potentials, along with the suspected cap and rotor, I am sure they have ruled out any motor specific problems such as head studs or other big stuff.

I hope this is the case for our cars and it is as simple as a cap and rotor. Wouldn't you know that when I took the mechanic for a spin nothing happened! It hadn't happened for days and days either. Then Monday night, the 30th., it stalled on my way back from the health club after temps had fallen 20+ degrees while inside for and hour and a half. That must've caused the moisture to collect and, about 2 miles from the club and pulling away from a stop sign, it started mis-firing and then stalled. Dark out, 4-ways on and hoping nobody would clobber me, I turned it over repeatedly until it finally started and drove it home the remaining 6 miles with no other occurences. Crazy.

Kevin

Wil Ferch · 11-01-2006, 08:21 AM

Either a re-check of oil "filling" procedures, to make sure you're not over-full...or maybe even a leaky injector(s)?

- Wil

mschuep · 11-01-2006, 08:26 AM

Wil-

Oil level was spot on...I'll pull the injector rails to check on them as I have not to this point. thanks

johnnyo · 11-01-2006, 08:43 AM

Being that # 5 cylinder is suspect upon inspection of plug, you my want to consider Wils suggestion of leaky or problematic injector also stating that oil smelled of fuel would indicate that raw fuel was seeping past rings which would lead me to beleive that for the duration of the no spark to the # 5 raw fuel was washing by the rings, check for loose or bad wire, good luck keep us posted!

Zeke · 11-01-2006, 08:50 AM

Watching here as well. Wil, I sent you an email thru the Pelican system a couple of days ago. It's about a 3.2 subject, so I post here. Never heard back (not that you have to respond

)

Wil Ferch · 11-01-2006, 09:07 AM

Milt:

I see no "new" PM's to me....which in itself is odd as I have a number of inquiries out...and no responses..

hmmm.....

I clear out my cache at times..so my mailox shouldn't be "full"...

Email me at wil_ferch at Praxair.com ( using "at") in this context text to pevent worming....actually use the proper symbol.

- Wil

crosby50 · 11-01-2006, 11:06 AM

Is anyone else out there getting that kind of mileage per oil consumption? I thought the standard was 1000 miles.

mschuep · 11-01-2006, 12:14 PM

Yeah, that was no typo. I added less than 1 quart over 5000....Did the math and consumption was about 1qt/6000.

edit: yes, I'm sure it wasn't overfilled to begin with, or low at the end

goat · goat's Garage

I am intrigued with your outcome.
oil comsumption or lack of, is pretty good.
I think I average 1 quart per 3,000 miles or so.

alMcm · 11-01-2006, 12:44 PM

My 85 Targa has only been on the road a few months. It has 70,000 miles. I had to top the oil off for the first time.
1 quart for 5,000 + miles.

mschuep · 11-03-2006, 06:03 AM

Pulled the injectors and took a look...Everything looks good. Reinstalled and went for another drive with no problems.

I'm going to do a compression check in a couple of weeks. Anything cylinder related will most likely show up then, and if so I can then do a leak down. At that time I'll drain and look at the engine oil too. I will post back with the results.

Until then, I'm going to continue to drive around in my general area, hoping (and not hoping

) that the problem re-occurs and I can get back to my garage to do some troubleshooting...Maybe something got 'hung up' temporarily, injector, plug not working, valve...who knows

Thanks for the input fellas

sp_cs · 11-03-2006, 06:27 AM

Had similar problems on my 3.2 a month or so ago.

After researching on this forum, I suggested to two different specialists whether the CHT was at fault, they both asked if I had plumes of blue smoke coming out the rear when the problem occured. I said no, but the car would jolt at speed as though the rev limiter had been met and then carry on as normal.

Upon checking, i had the old style CHT fitted - once replaced with the later two wire item, the problem disappeared.

Worth checking?

Shirish

mschuep · 11-03-2006, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sp_cs

Worth checking?

Sure is. Thanks for the tip.

Jeff · 11-03-2006, 06:46 AM

+1 for the Cylinder Head Temp. sensor.

kühn tune · 11-03-2006, 07:41 AM

I have a very similar problem. I had the same thing happen a few years ago during a rally. the car would lose power and run real flat for a while, then suddenly perk up and run normally.

I have just re-sealed my engine and had the injectors rebuilt, but the car is very flat with a rough stumbly idle and no power. Once when I was testing out the latest fix. the car perked up for half a second and pulled strong, then went back to low/no power. I checked all the connections in the DME and relay, all of the plug wires are firing, the distributor seems to be positioned correctly and I changed the terminal ends from the DME to the battery, a couple of which were corroded.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

Three sensors that can cause issues and control the quality of your 3.2 car running well.

Cylinder head sensor - usually shows up when the car is warm - can cause stumbling under acceleration - flat spots in power curve. No start after warm.

2 reference sensors - located on the flywheel. Same types of issues - can also cause a hard start at cold - stumbling, timing related types of issues - backfires -

You can pull the connectors on the driver's side of the engine bay - If you have the old one pin connector for the CHT - replace it.

When you do a engine R & R or clean - change out the two reference sensors at the flywheel - if they are original - you will see where the rubber shell insulation used to be.