Question about winter driving

[crosby50]

Now that I'm living through my first winter with the Carrera I've come to realize what its like to let my car sit undriven for weeks at a time (well, two weeks so far). Besides the obvious (salt, ice, snow) why do some people refuse to drive their cars in cold weather? Some say they will not take the car out when the temperature is below 40 degrees. It is my understanding that so long as the car is properly warmed up, cold weather is not detrimental to the engine. So, what's the reasoning behind this?

[CurtEgerer]

Winter driving yesterday ......

[k9handler]

I drive my car in the snow...great fun and the thing just works well in the white stuff. My Ford van is a death trap on slick roads.

[vanwyk4257]

Originally posted by CurtEgerer
Winter driving yesterday ......

Curt, was the sno drift rallye running this weekend?

Don't they run up north here in Michigan?

[MattAlpha]

Why the mud flaps? Just wondering.
-Matt

[porschenut]

IMO these Porsche owners who don't want their "baby" to get wet are suffering from the delusion that their car is some sort of jewel that should be protected from raindrops and snowflakes. It's not a jewel, it's a workhorse that was meant to be DRIVEN, and driven hard, in all types of weather (unless you have a cab or speedster). The worst thing you can possibly do to an old car is let it sit. It is always its best when driven often.

It's just a car, and Porsches were made for ALL weather. I might not drive a $200,000 Lambo in the snow but we're talking about old cars that cost us less than most 2-year-old minivans. Our cars should be used year round, not "protected" in the garage.

My 86 Carrera is the only car I own. It's my daily driver, my track car, and my snow car. It's almost as much fun in the snow as it is on a dry road.

[Zeke]

If you had repaired as much rusted out rockers and such as I have, you would know. The later galvanized cars fair better, but given time, they rust, too. Now, if you flushed and dried the car each outing, that would help immensely. But, you have to do it by hand, not just drive over some sprinklers you put in the driveway.

Proper winter prearation would be a big benefit as in cavity waxes before the wet.

[livi]

One of Ferdinand Porsche´s reasons for choosing an air cooled engine for both the VW and the Porsche was that it was a reliable winter set up. No freezing water cooled engines in chilly Germany winters.

They are very well suited for cold environment, although the heating for the cabin in the early models are perhaps not the best. Takes a little longer to get warm inside.

Salt is another matter. No good on the old metal.

Another thing is that the rather more dense cold air will at least theoretically produce a higher output. On cold crispy days it always feels like my car is faster.

[cygtoad]

In freezing weather, rinsing the car off after you have driven it is not even practical.   If you think your car will be none the worse for driving it in the snow, you are delusional.   Salt is definitely a killer, but there are other hazards on a winterly road...

Cinders and gravel ding your paint and gives salt access to bare metal and, of course, there are the snowplows that throw the stuff at you!

Careless drivers who underestimate slippery conditions run into you.

Cold dense windy air throws other people's car doors at you in the parking lots.

Freezing weather makes seals brittle and crack upon movement that you would not experience at warmer temps.

Freezing and thawing water in the joints of your car cause damage as it expands and contracts.   Roads up north are crappy for this reason.   This same dynamic is working on your car as well.

Ice and snow has to be removed from your car before you can drive it, so you take a nice scraper to your windshield and it gouges your glass. Snow brushes scratch and dull your finish.

Snow hides road hazards like pot holes, and sometimes even the edge of the road.   Covered up lines in the road are left to interpretation; yours and everyone else's.

Don't get me wrong, driving in the snow is great fun.   I grew up in Ohio's snow belt, and I used to do donuts with my old muscle cars.   Those cars are long gone now.   Only the guys that put them away for the winter still own theirs.

Back then I never thought winter driving was that big a deal, but a few years down the road you find out your car has rust cancer and it is terminal.   It is true that your 911 cost about as much as a used minivan.   But if you are going to treat your 911 like a disposable minivan then that is what it will be... disposable   As the number of older 911's on the road grow smaller and smaller they will become more valuable, unlike the minivans.

Having the car sit a couple months is not good, but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

[Carrera Charlie]

My '69 911E is my daily driver, but I am blessed to be living in the Pacific NW which has mild winters. I do drive mine on snow (great traction) when it falls in Seattle because we use little to no salt on the roads (mostly cinders and ash). Granted, it's old, but it does carry its batttle scars well and I will rebuild the rusted/rotten areas once the cash/time equation becomes more favorable. Till then, it loves running in 20 to 30 degreee weather, warms up beautifully (SSI heat exchangers keep me toasty) and keeps the fun factor going year-round for me!

I say drive it - my experience validates that Porsches love the cold!

Regards,

[autobonrun]

and it has nothing to do with the car being a jewel or on some type of pedestal; it's not my daily driver. It doesn't have the correct tires for winter driving, I choose not to buy a winter set for it, and I have another vehicle to drive during snow.

For those that get to enjoy their car year round, great, I'm jealous. But those that do also don't or shouldn't have any delusions about the impact of salt on metal. Galvanizing slows the rusting process but won't stop it if there is a break in the galvanic protection. They've weighed the positives and negatives of winter driving and choose to drive the car. No judgement on my part for that decision.

It's funny, I've seen many "for sale" ads that say "no winters" or even "no rain", but I've yet to see an add that says "driven every winter during the harshest conditions on salt covered roads". There's a reason for that.

[hytem]

I try not to drive in the snow--why bother with a 25 yr old second car? But I still drive about once a week in the winter.
These cars surely are ideal in snowy conditions--as long as you have the right tires, i.e., all-seasons or winter tires. The weight is in the right place for rear-wheel drive--in the rear.
As for salt, the zinc-coated cars should be OK--though I wouldn't overdo it for the older ones, if you don't have to.

[gassy]

In Illinois, salt salt salt

[john70t]

Nice pic Curt
Snow by itself won't do much, but the salt is what does it. Wonder how long before the Great Lakes have ocean-like salinity?

[Zef]

Cold is ok...salty road are not...!

[cnavarro]

I feel more comfortable driving the 911 in the snow than my daily driver, but I guess the 911 has become that since my 2006 chevy econobox gets driven maybe once a week now :-)

[tedder]

I take mine out whenever the roads are dry and relatively clean (Mass.). I figure it is the wet salt that will get my car a-rustin, not the dry stuff that bounces off.

I am also always amazed at how good the heater is in winter; my parents had an early 70's Beetle when I was a kid and man was that thing cold. My 911 has a better heating system than my 2000 Honda Accord and that is with the passenger's side capped-off due to a small oil leak.

[Dantilla]

It's not the car, it's the Hoosiers.

My 4x4 truck has been bumped into a few times by others not stopping in time. It has never been damaged. Not even a scratch, because the heavy bumpers sit so high.

I don't want to think of what my engine lid would look like if I had been driving the 911.

[petrolblue83911]

I've been driving my sc nearly all winter in MA. we've had a mild few months so it's been pretty easy. My rule of thumb is,

-after snow wait 3-4 days for the salt to run off the roads

-as long as it's above say 20deg. out I'll go for it. this is just because i don't want to have to cold start it after it sits in really cold weather outside after my work day.

My garrage while not heated stays at around 35-40deg even on really cold days so getting it going in the morning is never a problem. I do the following each week in the winter assuming that the car is clean except for road dust from driving

-take a warm, wet clean towel and wet down the whole exterior. Take dry towel and dry it off.

-take a less nice, wet towel and wipe down the wheel wells, under carrige near the outer seams, then dry with a dry towel.

Before the winter starts I wax the crap out of the car including wheel wells. I am certain that this kind of driving during the winter (this year I'll probably rack up 2-3k miles over the winter since the weather has been so nice) is better for the car than sitting. My heat works great (new SSI's) and these cars love cold dense air, they run better than in the summer once they are warmed up.

[crosby50]

I agree with much that has been said. My daily driver is an AWD Audi so there is no reason to drive the Porsche in the snow or rain. Also, since I don't want to wash my car in the frigid temperatures I don't want to get it salty - even the dry, dusty kind.

My main question though had to do with some comments on the forum about cold weather driving. I see no reason not to drive the car in very cold weather so long as the roads are clean. Why are cold starts such a big deal? Is it more taxing on an older car?