Performance Products 9x16's

[khamul02]

Well after a lot of thought about going with the new Roto 9x17's or the PP 9x16's I opted to go with the "stock looking" 16's. It also keeps costs down as I only need two.

Anyhew, there was a bit of discussion about these a while back:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=289324&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Well if you look at their ad and the thread above their wheels are advertised as being "made in Italy"

Not so much!

Just got these in thinking the low pressure casting and made in Italy was a great selling point for a cast wheel and guess what no made in Italy but a big made in china.

Now I'm not a track guy whatsoever so I'm going to keep them and put them through the paces via my spirited street driving.

Another reason I'm going to give them a try is a most of my friends are engineers (as I teach at an engineering university) and they suggest it's not china that's bad it's the specs going there that are. So we will see what kind of specs PP sent to China. I'll reply to the thread if anything catastrophic happens.

A few pics of the box and some stamps on the back of the wheels:



My Fav:

[khamul02]

Text from original ad just encase PP takes it down:
"This replica of the standard factory wheel is manufactured using the superior low pressure casting method for a superb finish. Painted center and machine cut diamond finished lip area clear coated for added protection from the elements. Hub centric for a perfect fit. Made in Italy."

[the]

Originally posted by khamul02
I'll reply to the thread if anything catastrophic happens.

not if it's truly catastrophic.

[CRH911S]

I'm sure the toothpaste met specs except for an unfortunate few. Considering they're killing our dogs and causing mayhem on the road with their tires did your decision to use them include the consequence that possibly puts your family at risk?

[khamul02]

Come on How bad can they be? Here is the ad for their "newer" replicas:

• 100% Low Pressure Casting

• Lightweight Aluminum

Performance Products® proudly presents these alloy replica 5-spoke style wheels. Manufactured using water & air cooled low pressure casting equipment resulting in the strongest and lightest cast aluminum wheels on the market. This design allows us to manufacture a wheel only slightly heavier than a more expensive forged wheel. Finished wheels are then completely X-Rayed to insure quality and strength. Wheels come with black centers and a machined lip. All wheels are hub-centric with the standard 5x130mm lug pattern. Offsets fit 1965-89 911,912,930 with Carrera® or Turbo flares, 944 1983-86 except Turbo and 914-6 with GT Flares. Center caps and lug nuts sold separate.

http://www.***************/productpage.aspx?pid=111781&name=Alloy+Replica+Wheels

[khamul02]

Originally posted by CRH911S
possibly puts your family at risk?

Family, dude . . If we all go by that philosophy we should all throw out everything we have in our house and possession that is made in china. Seeing how almost every electronic device has something Chinese in it, it will all have to go less our houses burst into flames while we sleep.

PS No family.

[Jeff Alton]

They seem to have been tested to the same load rating as the ROTA ones that are made off shore.....

I have no comment on this wheel, but why do we assume everything that comes out of there is poo?



Cheers

edited for a large number of typing errors in a small post

[DARISC]

Originally posted by Jeff Alton
The seen to have been tested to the same load rating as the ROTA ones that are made of shore.....

I have no comment on this wheel, but why do we assume everything that comes out of there is poo?

Cheers

Well I don't think that all of us do, JEFFF! Unless, of course, the product's from the province of Poo Ching Tao.

Actually, as I have elucidated on another thread, Chinese noodles are quite possibly superior to Italian noodles because the Chinese were making noodles looong before Marco Polo ripped the Chinese off and began selling them in Italy - called them Spaghetti! Hah, talk about what may have been the first knock-off!

This is NOT off topic!

Years before Mao, the Chinese in fact manufactured noodle cart wheels that were very similar to the later developed western "wire" wheels (I believe another Italian named Borrani ripped that concept off the Chinese as well) that were formed limp, then frozen solid.

They were "winter" cart wheels used only in the winter in the colder regions of Upper Mongolia and enjoyed many years of popularity (primarily purchased by peasants).

They failed miserably in Italy until the Italians substituted heavy guage Italian piano wire for the noodles.

Interestingly, no one has been successful in their attempts to produce a cast wire wheel. That ought to tell one something!

[Jeff Alton]

I am half Italian (mothers maiden name is Fornari, rhymes with a famous italian car) so take it easy on the noodles......

Cheers

[skipdup]

it's not china that's bad it's the specs going there that are

I would disagree. They absolutely change the specs.

My father-in-law had some equipment manufactured in China for a while (small farming implements). They changed nearly every spec (that was not immediately visible) in order to save money. For example, they used smaller wall tubing, but with the same outter diameter. I believe everyone failed.

He also had electronics manufactured there (auto deer feeders) and experienced the same switching of components to save manufacturing costs. Same result (nearly everyone failed) but with a completely different company.

Plus, with everything else going on over there... You can bet nothing safety related, ESPECIALLY something as critical as wheels, will be used by me.

My .02

- Skip

[Quicksilver]

(with apologies to Jeff's mother...)

Have you ever been to Italy? It is an amazingly fun place...
... Mostly because of the level of random chaos.

I constantly found myself (while having a LOT of fun) looking around and thinking, "I can't believe that this is considered an industrialized country. Nothing happens on purpose here!"

[the]

Originally posted by Jeff Alton

I have no comment on this wheel, but why do we assume everything that comes out of there is poo?

Because a lot of the stuff that comes out of there historically has been? Kinda been their specialty.

Anyways, I've tried going to the PP site directly, and I can't find any page stating that the wheels are made in Italy anymore. Are they still saying that, or are they running the revised ad that khamul02 posted above?

[dad911]

Originally posted by the
Because a lot of the stuff that comes out of there historically has been? Kinda been their specialty.

Anyways, I've tried going to the PP site directly, and I can't find any page stating that the wheels are made in Italy anymore. Are they still saying that, or are they running the revised ad that khamul02 posted above?

This link still states made in Italy: http://www.***************/productpage.aspx?pid=110674&name=911%c2%ae+Alloy+Replica+5-Spoke

If it was me, I would return them back on principle for false advertising.

[CRH911S]

My comment isn't intended to offend anyone. As long as you accept responsibility for purchasing the wheel I really don't care. If the wheel you purchase kills you or someone elese make sure your living will or trust covers the cost of your negligence. Buyer beware is the first defense against becoming the by-product of vulture capitalism. This is all I have to say. Good luck with the wheels.

[DARISC]

Originally posted by dad911
This link still states made in Italy: http://www.***************/productpage.aspx?pid=110674&name=911%c2%ae+Alloy+Replica+5-Spoke

If it was me, I would return them back on principle for false advertising.

Well, this just gets interestinger and interestinger. Just got off the phone with Automotion (Performance Parts).

Seems false advertising doesn't apply.

They no longer sell the Italian made Fuchs replicas. They were not happy with the strength, quality and appearance of the wheel.

The Chinese made Fuchs replica that they currently sell is, according to Automotion, a stronger, low pressure cast wheel that is more faithful to the Fuchs appearance.

They say that they DO NOT RECOMMEND THESE WHEELS OR ANY OTHER CHEAP CAST WHEELS for track use (and commented that the cheap knock-offs had a market for those who wanted "Tle Look" but didn't have or want to spend the money for a quality wheel). The suggestion was that a quality wheel such as BBS, Kinesis, Fikse, etc. would be the acceptable replacement for the original forged Fuchs wheels if the car was going to be tracked

Incidentally, the person I spoke with has owned several Porsches.

Gotta admit that I'm impressed by the straight forward answers I got from this vendor (with absolutely NO hyperbole!).

[khamul02]

Wow I'm shocked at all the negatives responses. Even though they are made in China I thought the low pressure casting and Xray QC might suggest they are reliable for daily driving. After all the Rotos that are being tested currently and soon to be shipped are being produced via gravity casting and are being considered for track applications. Although If I'm correct they are a bit thicker?

What gives, shouldn't the pressure casting produce a stronger wheel?

And shouldn't the xray examination kick out any defects assuming PP rejection criteria is reasonable?

[island911]

Originally posted by Jeff Alton
They seem to have been tested to the same load rating as the ROTA ones that are made off shore.......[/I]

Yes but the offshore cheap labor cast knock-offs Rota wheels have the blessing of a Pelican MD named "Moses" (everybody likes him --I like him) And so if a nice Pelican guy puts forth a good-faith effort, is nice about his opinion, well then, that trumps all concerns of quality and/or physics.

Furthermore, and with the same logic, Perf-Prod's offshore cheap labor cast knock-offs are being sold thru a Pelican competitor. ...Making the quality of Perf Prod's offshore cheap labor cast knock-offs inferior to the Rota's offshore cheap labor cast knock-offs.

Was that too blunt?

Oh, btw, I applaud Wayne for not carrying those Chinese cheap labor cast knock-offs. --Actually, I believe he decided not to carry them when touted as Italian cast knock-offs. In the wake of the Firstone fiasco I surely wouldn't want anything to do with an offshore cast knock-off wheels.

Maybe CRH is righttimes have changed. Perhaps the consumers here now know the risks of offshore cheap labor cast knock-offs. --like they would know not to expect high speed track runs on a snow tire-- that they could use the offshore cheap labor cast knock-offs just fine for posing around town.

[khamul02]

sorry I double posted

[DARISC]

Originally posted by khamul02
Wow I'm shocked at all the negatives responses. Even though they are made in China I thought the low pressure casting and Xray QC might suggest they are reliable for daily driving. After all the Rotos that are being tested currently and soon to be shipped are being produced via gravity casting and are being considered for track applications.

What gives, shouldn't the pressure casting produce a stronger wheel?

And shouldn't the xray examination kick out any defects assuming PP rejection criteria is reasonable?

To the point, what makes the Roto 17s a better wheel than this other than where it was produced?

Welcome to the ranks of Irksome Question Askers (as percieved by some fanatics of real pretty, real cheap wheels of WHATEVER brand).

We may be despised by some but that's not our problem, just something to be bemused by.

[island911]

Originally posted by DARISC
...
They no longer sell the Italian made Fuchs replicas. They were not happy with the strength, quality and appearance of the wheel.

The Chinese made Fuchs replica that they currently sell is, according to Automotion, a stronger, low pressure cast wheel that is more faithful to the Fuchs appearance.

They say that they DO NOT RECOMMEND THESE WHEELS OR ANY OTHER CHEAP CAST WHEELS for track use (and commented that the cheap knock-offs had a market for those who wanted "The Look" but didn't have or want to spend the money for a quality wheel). ...

Wow! ..and as Tom/khamul02 sez they are x-raying each for quality control? Wow. Stick a fork in this thread, it is DONE. (well, other than when the Rota fans chime in with photos of rally cars)

Good work DARISC. Your post about Pref-Prods (bad) experience speaks volumes.