SC Replacement Seat Belts

spyderman · 01-28-2008, 10:28 AM

With all due respect to our host, has anybody found a non cost prohibitive replacement for SC or later seat belts? I just put 87 Cab seats in my 80 SC, so I have both the seat mount, and floor mounts available to me. I'd like to find belts as close to the 87 ones, so that I can mount them to the seat, but I'm not picky. Has anyone found a lower cost replacement than the $200 range that I see on our host? Not looking to break the bank, would belts from an Audi or Passat or 944 work? Any thoughts will be welcome. Thanks.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

I may still have this stored away.. was for an SC.

jtfreels · 01-28-2008, 11:18 AM

I have put 944 front seat belts on my SC.

Jay

Fuchs · 01-28-2008, 11:24 AM

When I had an SC, I used a set of 944 belts in the rear seats no problem.

Got them on eBay and since they "weren't" for a 911, so they were pretty cheap.

Good luck.

-John

emac · emac's Garage

I just got front and rear like new 944's off ebay and very minor mods to the front.

All for only 80.00

john walker's workshop · 01-28-2008, 12:23 PM

$200 to save a life seems cheap to me.

spyderman · 01-28-2008, 02:22 PM

Totally right that $200 is cheap to save a life. However, as many of you have pointed out the seats are the same in a 944 as a 911, and I guess I was looking to find out if there was a cheaper more modern belt out there that would fit. I'm currently looking at a set of 993 belts on ebay, and I think they will work. I have working seat belts in the car, but they don't match. I guess I was hoping my vanity wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg so to speak. Thanks for the suggestions.

P.S. I'll post some pics soon of the new leather seats I just put in. They look sweet. Cheers.

911pcars · 01-28-2008, 03:52 PM

"Totally right that $200 is cheap to save a life."

I'll sell you the set off my car for $500. Let's not undervalue one's life.

Sherwood

emac · emac's Garage

I really dont want to sound like a wiseass, and I agree that we must not ever undervalue anyone's life. However, as many have posted they were able to get GOOD used belts for less then 200. Sherwood, dont take offense but how can you say that $200 is cheap to save a life and then offer to sell a USED set from your car for 500?

javadog · 01-29-2008, 06:10 AM

I think he was kidding.

Anyway, something that should be mentioned here is that the seat belts lose some (perhaps a lot) of their strength over time. If I were replacing a belt, it would be with a new one, not something 15 or 20 years old, with unknown history.

JR

spyderman · 01-29-2008, 06:41 AM

Agreed, that's why I'm looking for new belts. This just seems like an item that has "porsche tax" on it, and I was wondering if one of the many smart people on here had found a cheaper yet safe way of replacing their seat belts. I wear mine every day, and want to know that it is of good quality and fits the car right. Good discussion though. keep it coming.

dlagerstrom · 01-29-2008, 07:23 AM

Isn't it possible to just replace the webbing? I think there are companies that will put in new straps and sew them together properly. If the retractor mechanism is working okay, the strap is what wears down over time from abrasion and UV etc. Make sense? Anybody know about a service?

tcar · 01-29-2008, 09:34 AM

Liability might be an issue, even tho it's a great idea; new webbing.

911pcars · 01-29-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emac

I really dont want to sound like a wiseass, and I agree that we must not ever undervalue anyone's life. However, as many have posted they were able to get GOOD used belts for less then 200. Sherwood, dont take offense but how can you say that $200 is cheap to save a life and then offer to sell a USED set from your car for 500?

Emac,
Sometimes, my attempts at funny sarcasm aren't too obvious. I tagged my comment with this

, but perhaps the smilie didn't translate.

"This just seems like an item that has "porsche tax" on it,...."

Indeed. Porsche uses the same seat belt vendor as many other manufacturers. Purchase a M6 screw from an official Porsche parts bin and compare the cost with an equivalent from a hardware store. And as others point out, the apparently identical mechanism from a 944 is readily available for much less (on the used market anyway). How different can Repa SB mechanisms be considering each model must meet a govt. threshold test. Can't be too many variations I suspect.

Old webbing is another matter and still open for discussion. Are there numbers that show passenger injury due to failed seatbelts?

Sherwood

emac · emac's Garage

Sherewood my friend

At 58 (and that's not MPH) it takes about six hours for the brain to kick in.

Hope I didn't offend.

Ernie

Moke81 · 01-29-2008, 11:14 AM

Try this web site for used Porsche parts. http://www.partsheaven.com

Walt Fricke · 01-30-2008, 08:58 PM

With apologies to the owner of this posting, who just wanted matching belts:

Nylon loses strength due to exposure to UV. The U.S. Army's Natick labs came out with a chart showing this during WWII or therabouts. If the exposure is especially intense, the loss can be pretty quick (year or two). Climbers have learned to be careful using the nylon slings other climbers left part way up a tall cliff when they rapelled off. Without UV or mechanical damage it stays strong a long long time.

How much loss a car seat belt has endured is hard to estimate without destructive testing. I suspect stretch/elasticity decreases (weight X will stretch length Y less as strength decreases), but don't know that for sure.

But one doesn't hear of seat belts, no matter how old, failing due to loss of strength. And there are lots and lots of car crashes all the time, and nowadays most folks belt up, and there are a fair number of old cars still on the road. Someone found a report of a Canadian helicopter (or some kind of aircraft) crash into a lake where the quite old pilot's belt (shoulder harness on an inertial reel, I think) broke on impact (guy survived, if I recall). Picture showed it to be a bit ratty looking anyway, and in a high sun exposure location.

In a rational world you'd just purchase new webbing, take the hardware to the local parachute rigger, and have the sewing done.

1) I haven't been able to find, at least not easily, a source for the right webbing.

2) I have a sewing machine capable of stitching through three or four layers of webbing, and used to make my own climbing harnesses. But I have been unable to find specifications showing what the proper thread or pattern is (so I just stitched the ***** out of things, and I'm here so it must have sort of worked).

And then there is another issue. Any of you guys ever take apart one of the retractors? Well, when installing a roll cage in my car I removed mine. For some reason I decided I needed to take the web off of the reel. When I did the reel (spring loaded) sprang. I could never get it re-spring loaded like it was before and still insert the belt. I'd get almost there with screw drivers in the slot in the rod in the middle, and something would slip and bzzz, back to square 1.

As to used belts, I'd look for several things: fading is a sign of excess UV. Stiffness of the nylon I'd count as a bad sign also. And, of course, signs of abrasion, knicks, tears, cuts, whatnot. If the color is good and it is supple and undamaged, I think the odds are good it retains enough of its original strength.

And I'd want it on the reel so all I had to do was bolt things on.

Walt Fricke

spyderman · 01-31-2008, 07:35 AM

That was a good read. Makes me feel better about getting a used belt or two if they are in good shape. The belts that were originally in the car were frayed stained and a little stiff. First thing I did to the car once I got it back here to TX was to change out the seat belts to new ones I had bought for the 70T before it died. They are VW bug belts, but they don't seem to mount right in the SC. So now I want to do it right, but not shell out $400 to $600 to do both sides. I guess I'll just keep my eyes open for some out on ebay. There seems to be alot of 993 996 and 997 belts out there. Does anyone know if belts 964 and later would bolt into my car? That would solve 2 problems, getting used belts that aren't 20 some years old (even 944 ones are now), and not have to buy brand new. Thanks for all the help guys. I'm sure there are others out there that are interested as well.

gshiwota · 01-31-2008, 07:46 AM

I'm looking for to replace my front seatbelts on my 82 SC with newer models. Does anyone know if belts from a 996 will fit? Will I have to replace the latch too? Someone here must have tried this or has access to 996 and SC belts.

I'm looking to update the belts to ones with ALR (auto locking ratchet) so I can mount a car seat in the pass seat.

Thanks,

Gabe

javadog · 01-31-2008, 08:20 AM

That investigation report of the incident in Canada with the helicopter is available on the internet. For those that haven't seen it, a small helicopter crashed shortly after takeoff, into a lake. The pilot survived, although his harness broke upon impact. To summarize their findings; the belt was assumed to be 27 years old based upon a date on a label on the lap belt, had no fraying or damage but did have some sun fading on the portion of the belt that was not retracted into the retractor when stowed. The belt was 2 inches in width, with a nominal strength of 1500 pounds and a minimum design failure strength of 2,250 pounds. It failed upon impact at a section where there was discoloration from fading due to UV exposure. Subsequent destruction testing showed the faded portion failing at less than 600 pounds and the unfaded portion failing at under 1500 pounds.

I suppose we can assume from this that all belts will lose strength with age and the more sunlight exposure one receives, the worse it gets. A 27 year old belt seems quite old but, if you look in my garage, I have 3 cars with belts older than that and many more with belts 20 years old, or so. All seem cosmetically fine but some are starting to feel stiff, so you have to wonder what shape they are really in.

For what it's worth,
JR