I Think I Have The Last 993 Off The Line Not Seinfeld.
 

Hi all. Don't get all worked up over this but we have a 993 that came off the line after Jerry Seinfeld's did. So I think... This was a custom order black 1998 c2s that was made december of 97 and delivered march of 98. it has the stainless exhaust deleted seats turbo wheels and racing seats just the way my dad wanted it. He puts very few miles on and it is in showroom condition with just over 5k miles on it. If any of you know how to tell if this is the last one please let me know. We do not plan to sell this one at any cost. It was his dream car and he worked all his life for it.

Here is the VIN

wp0aa2992ws321341

wouldn't this indicate that it is the last one shipped to america? We talked to a guy that said it is most likely and told us to talk to our dealer. Our dealer usually jumps thru hoops to make us happy and he never returned out call even after we waited and called him back. maybe he was told to shut up about it since seinfeld gets all the special orders and it may piss him off if he didn't have the real deal. either way its strange that our dealer wouldn't get right back to us on it after having a long term relationship with them and dozens of sales..

Let me know what you guys think. This is not a hoax, we just want to know if we should put it in bubble wrap or keep enjoying it for a few hundred miles each year. Thanks

Nick K.
Whitefish Montana
storm6490@bresnan.com

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1220206003.jpg

According to the 911 Red Book, the 993 was produced in Turbo and 4-wheel-drive form until July 1998. I cant find the VIN you state however, the closest being the W Program 993 Carrera range:

Carrera US/Canada WPOAA299CWS320001 to 1353

This one was sold as the last one:
wp0aa2998ws321327
It has a nice custom 911 badge and everything....
if ours has a vin of wp0aa2992ws321341 wouldn't that mean that its 14 cars newer than the one that is supposedly the "last one shipped to america"

I dont know much about vins... anyway, I think and hope I have got something extra ordinary here!

Thanks

Well there's no doubt you have *one* of the last 993's built, but I expect that Jerry's car may have been pulled off the line and brought into some sort of special wishes/customizing shop where it got some special treatment including the badge you reference. Meanwhile, your dad's car kept on going down the assembly line.

Porsche may have *started* building Jerry's car before your dad's, but Jerry's car was probably *finished* later....and this is after all the important bit when it comes to laying claim to the *last* air cooled Porsche ever built title.

Still a cool car though, and maybe more valuable because of the extremely late VIN.

Cool, ours was custom ordered as well, it was mfg dec 97 and delivered mar of 98. he had suspension, brakes, stainless exhaust, stainless door jams, race seats, rear seats deleted, turbo wheels and a few other things done to it directly from germany before she was shipped over.

You would think that to have the last 993 you would need to have the last body not the last one that came out of the custom shop.

Another interesting thing I was told is that there were 2 of each model produced and stored away just before this one. that would make sense in the difference between the seinfeld car and ours.

Thanks for all your help. I will keep looking into this...

Ruf in Pfaffenhausen has around 10 993 as unconstructed 'bodies in white'. I'm sure that if you asked kindly you could obtain one and sent it to Werk1 and you'd have the last one built for the time being.

Porsche built Micheal Schumacher a 959 well after series production ended so there's some precedent for situations like this...

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1220224989.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1220225069.jpg

The vin would indicate that it was made in 2008 then correct? I know it's a cool car and all but I think the vin makes it even more special in this case. Thanks for the info. It would be cool to get a custom one some day.

I remember some dust up about the "last mustang" (old 60s one) made.

Ford has the last one, by serial #, in its collection. But some guy has one that has a lower serial number, but claims it actually came off the assembly line later. Apparently cars don't always come off the assembly line in exact sequential order, so at least 2 people can sometimes have a claim to the "last one."

I can see that happening with a ford or whatever but this one has all the same options as Seinfelds and a later vin as well. The only thing different is that his has a 911 badge on the back and a plaque on the back seat.

I'm starting to think that this is not only the last c2s but the last 993 ever if they made only 14 more after seinfelds and let 7 out to the public. I'd like to find the other 13 vins after his and before ours to see what all they were.

Any way to find out the port of entry date on the cars or the mfg date and delivery date of seinfelds? ours is mfg dec 97 and delivered march of 1998. Don't think it gets much later than that..

Thanks for your help!

No, I'm sure the VIN's aren't stamped at all.

One of Jerry's (he claims) cars on ebay - not the last but man its pretty!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-PORSCHE-911-TURBO-S-W-8-255-MILES_W0QQitemZ300254476103QQihZ020QQcategoryZ1015 6QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Man is that a gorgeous car.

You know what, just enjoy the car by driving it. That is what Porsches are for.

Amen. Baseball cards are for collecting; Porsches are for driving. Don't be like those folks complaining about Porsche building too many cars and, "ruining their value as collectables . . . "

Yep! They sure are. Lots of other toys to choose from but this one is the crown jewel of the garage for some reason. Probably because he dreamed of one since he was a kid. He puts 500 miles on it every year and services it more than it needs. When we do drive it she gets a good work out. Just sucks that you have to wait in the car when it is parked... A little paranoid about door dings and jealous *******s in redneck ville...

Redneckville? Do you live in Holly Springs too?

Nope, not a porsche snob, just really curious about the vehicle since the dealer got all quiet after we questioned them about the vin vs the seinfeld car. I think it is a historically significant issue since to me the porsche kinda died when they walked away from air cooled engines. We get 500 miles on it every year and let her rip.

I will complain about porsche making a boxter and a suv. They both suck.:p

500 miles? Drive it more!

As for your question, go directly to Porsche AG and see what they say. No sense pussy footing around with local dealers.

na, im in montana. dad is in rural farm land wisconsin. :) Sounds like holly springs is a lot of fun....

In redneckville we had jealous *******s punch the rear quarter panel of my landcruiser, key the door lightly on my brothers m5, door dinged the ML55 and pissed on the e55.

some a-holes are just jealous and don't realize some people actually worked hard to earn these cars to feed their habit.

oh well. karma will catch up with them..

Thanks for your suggestion. I just called them and left a message to get a certificate of authenticity and also mentioned I would like to know more about the vin and if it really is the last one.

Do you think they would lie to keep their number one US customer happy? I doubt the Germans would be able to since they are so precise in documentation. Just ask the red cross! j/k

Holly Springs is "transitioning" but we still have high schoolers driving around the local Taco Hell with gigantic Confederate flags mounted in their monster trucks. I don't believe Porsche will want to validate this car (or settle the "last built" issue) as they've become increasingly aware about the legal aspect of "affirming" the provenance of such vehicles. Somewhere, someone else would have their feelings hurt by whatever the final word is and might go hunting for some legal help.

CoA isn't worth the paper it is written on. You need someone to search the archives or wherever to see about the last few 993s produced, and what happened to them. VINs would be great if they are willing to release that info and where those cars were sold.

I wouldn't specifically ask about the last 993 as that is a pointed question and Jerry S. has some pull at the factory. Perhaps asking where your VIN falls in the production sequence of the final production run of 993s. Who knows, they may even give you a straight answer.

To determine when the car came off the production line you need the production number which differs from the VIN. I believe cars are assigned the VINs according to the work order. In otherwords the VIN is determined by the work order and what options the car will have.

When the cars start on the production line they are assigned a sequential production number. The car could end up being any color and or have any range of options determined by it's VIN.

My understanding is the last car off the production line has the last production number and would be considered the last car produced. That's probably the car that Seinfeld has.

When the cars actually left the Porsche factory could be something altogether different.


So basically VINs are order sequenced and production numbers are production line sequenced.

Thanks for your help. Although it contradicts what my friend tells me. He is a Mercedes master tech who seems to know a little about the stuff and tells me it doesn't get a vin number until just before it leaves the door and the work order is what they go off of before it gets it's vin. It would be really cool to find out the mfg and delivered dates of the one that sold.

Scouser from Renntech indicated that there are 8 more vins after ours but not sure if the cars were meant for europe or north america. he did know the last two 1348 and 1349 were targas. That goes along with the two of each story we were told about at the dealer.

I'm starting to think that Seinfeld got his last 911 and then they decided to do another production run at the last second. His was built december 17. All ours says is december. Delivered in March.

Thanks for your help! I will take it into consideration. It's about 50/ 50 on the vin allocation at this time.

Nick

I haven't been to the factory in a number of years and so I can't offer any advice that is directed specifically at the 993 cars. I will pass on three things which may be relevant.

Back in the good old days, there were two numbers assigned to a 911. One was the production number, the other was the serial number/VIN. The production number was stamped on the dash sheet metal prior to the car being painted. It was then covered up when the interior trim was installed. This same number was written on other body parts after they were painted, using a grease pencil. A typical place to find them is on the inside of the doors. Many people (including me) assume a couple things about this number. First, the cars originally started down the line in the order of their production number. Notice I didn't say that they came off of the line in that order. Often they were held for a part that hadn't arrived, or for re-work to something that didn't pass inspection. Second, there is no real relationship between this number and the serial number.

At some point, each chassis is assigned a serial number or VIN. This was recorded on the car in various places, in several different manners, depending upon the year it was produced. It might have been stamped into the body sheet metal, it might have been stamped into a tag that was then riveted to the body and it might have been stamped or printed onto a sticker that was glued to the body. Deending upon the year it was produced, a car may have all three of these types of identification. In the case of those cars that had it stamped into the body sheetmetal, this was done prior to the body being painted, so it was done fairly early in the process. I'd wager that the serial number was assigned to a particular car fairly early in the production, even during the 993 days. 993s were built after Porsche had started using the just-in-time manufacturing techiques they learned from some Japanese consultants and that process dictates that they build things in a very particular order and know exactly what order the cars are coming down the production line. In any event, take a look and see if there is a number stamped into the body sheetmetal, under the paint, at some place. I'd suggest that you start your search under the trunk carpet. If you find one, you'll know that the VIN number was assigned quite early in the process.

Next, what Mercedes does may or may not be similar to what Porsche does. A Mercedes master tech may know exactly zip about a Porsche.

Lastly, having been a car dealer, let me mention a couple of reasons why he may have not responded to your calls. He is in business to sell cars. He is usually pretty busy, as there are always a million people needing his attention. He may consider this quest of yours to be a wild goose chase and it may have gotten buried quite low on his priority list. He may also have no real source of information for what you seek. When I was a dealer, there was nothing I had access to that would have given me that sort of information. If you are dealing with a salesman, instead of the dealer principal, he will have even less access to information. It is always better to make such inquiries in person, rather than via a phone call.

Tell your dad to enjoy the car,
JR

Sounds like it's a little confusing. You sound like you have a more reasonable claim to the highest VIN number rather than the last one produced. Even Jerry couldn't argue with that. Well, maybe he could, but he'd probably make a couple hundred thou while doing it in standup style. Of course even that may not be true...... They may yet have some other bodies waiting in the wings at the factory even as we sit here.

As an aside, and IMHO, seals, gaskets, moving parts, etc all like to be moved to get lubricated. It seems to me this car should be driven more if it is meant to last in a fashion more than a trailer queen that will eventually stop running after less than ten thousand miles. I know it is a special car and you probably get some sort of satisfaction from that and probably as much from keeping it perfect and occasionally rubbing it with a diaper (not that there's anything wrong with that....) but these cars do need to be driven. They need it and thrive on it. Just my 0.02.

And by the way I love your car and would love to have a 993C2S one day.

And Jerry, if you're reading and need someone to drive yours for a while I'm available....I might even wipe it with a diaper.

thanks for your expert advise. we will look into it more. you rock!

Thanks! I agree. He was told the same thing about his 12cyl mercedes when he brought it in to get it serviced. His not driving enough cost him thousands of dollars as the suspension rotted from driving it too little.

How many miles do you put on a car like this per year to keep it healthy?

Thanks!

Drive it at least once a week to keep things lubed up. I should talk as I have only driven my 79 turbo 1000 miles since I bought it last June.

Storm6490...I love Whitefish! Became very good friends with a guy from there and his brothers (The Gustafson Brothers) and have ski'd up there a couple of times. Ended up at The Great Northern or whatever it's called...it was little fuzzy. That area has changed a LOT in the last 20 years. One of the brothers lives in one of Tommy Moe's homes up in Alaska and my buddy now lives in Marin County, Ca.
Good times with those guys and your car is awesome, BTW.
Oh...Javadog knows his stuff, as you have probably gathered.

[QUOTE=storm6490;4151072]
Nick K.
Whitefish Montana
storm6490@bresnan.com

Ah, Whitefish! I miss the huckleberry pancakes at the Buffalo Cafe. Great stuff. My wife's uncle used to have a great house right on the lake.

Hi all, I really appreciate all your help with this. It's pretty exciting! I have out a lot of information on these cars. I was surprised to find out that the c2s was one of the most sought after. I would have thought it was the turbo.

I don't want to start a pissing match with the owner of the "last one" as the air cooled guys said it was documented and so on. It's hard to beat that kind of pedigree with Seinfeld as the owner and that kick ass 911 badge on the back.

What I do want is to find out about the "2 of each model" 993's that were produced and where this one stands on the line. We will be looking for a professional who can assist us in investigating this vehicle and would appreciate any leads you could offer. We won't be tearing out the carpet or removing the door panels any time soon but expect that if needed we could in the future. This vehicle will be in our family for generations so I give thanks for all the advise on driving it more.

In the near future I will be building my own air cooled vehicle specifically designed for gravel roads here in montana. I will be looking for a salvaged c4 to play with since you can pretty much drive anything with headlights and turn signals here in montana.

You guys are awesome!

Nick

Ya, it has changed a lot in the ten years I have been here. William Foley, owner of the largest title insurance company in the world, has decided to by up all the buildings down town and most of the real estate. It did clean things up quite a bit but I liked dirty old montana the way it was. One big screw up he did was allow his advertising monkeys to rename the BIG MOUNTAIN to whitefish mountain resort. The USGS has it listed as big mountain so there is still a lot of confusion when the state signs say big and the company signs say wmr... Freaks out a lot of drivers.

It's still a fun place to visit. I'm surprised more people don't ship there cars out here to drive them. We have a severe lack of police and some of the most beautiful winding roads in the country. All porsche owners need to take a very early drive up the going to the sun road in glacier national park just before sunrise. That's when all the toys show up and park cops are sleeping.

Come ski this winter!

Nick

[QUOTE=Moses;4154608] He should have kept the house on the lake! My friend tim is living in a small cabin on the lake his grandpa built in the 50's. The neighbor offered 2.5 for it and he declined. Even when the rest of the real-estate is taking a dump. Whitefish lake is still super golden.

I try to stay away from the buffalo cafe as I live here and would become obese within months after having their breakfast! Still the best breakfast within 200 miles!

Hucks are in season, let me know if you want some fresh shipped out. I picked over a gallon after our gold prospecting only uncovered iron pyrite. :(

Why doesn't Porsche figure out that what "REAL" drivers want is the early air cooled mean machine and go back and produce a killer version of the 993 as an anniversary version - backdated to motor and body shape!

That would be worth waiting for. I don't care for the new water-cooled 'modern' look or sound. IMHO: the tear shaped lights were the wrong direction. they should have stayed true to the original and it would only have improved Porsche. It's best in it's raw, mean, uncivilized form.

Here, here.

It's what I am building - the best I can.

See my project site for details... latest:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=427481

I'm sure they could, but the price would be very high. Remember back in the mid/late 90s when Nissan bought back a bunch of 240Zs and rebuilt them with new parts? I think those cars were running in the $30k range. If Porsche were to reproduce 993s, I'd say they would be in the $100k+ range.

Yep. I guess that would make it hurt all the more.

The straight rear view of a 95 era 993 is like the shape of nice, healthy woman's hips, from behind. I think that is no mistake .... rather... it's BY design, that Porsche came up with that.

It's just the best car shape ever conceived... period.