BEWARE Pelican's Slippery Sales Tactics

[JEB]

My .02

I never assumed that OEM was factory Porsche.

OEM to me means original manufacturer.

If Bosch made the lights originally - they are the OEM. You can buy a Bosch light that is OEM - but not a Porsche part. Same thing with Mahle filters - original equipment to the car - but you may not buy the replacement from the dealer. Mahle is the OEM - the fliter that you buy isn't a factory Porsche part - but equivilent to the factory part.

Different branding - different ditribution chain.

I don't think the description is slippery at all - I don't expect to see the factory logo and part # if it is listed as OEM.


Jeb
79 930

[Bobboloo]

I've always understood OEM to mean that the part is made by the original manufacturer, nothing more, nothing less.

It seems to me you're bashing Pelican for your own ignorance.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Bobboloo

I've always understood OEM to mean that the part is made by the original manufacturer, nothing more, nothing less.

It seems to me you're bashing Pelican for your own ignorance.

Yep. EPIC fail. This thread will be vaporised very so

[barndoor]

dumb,learn.

[KTL]

I can appreciate the desire for the real McCoy Porsche part in some instances. But let's be honest here. It's a plastic pedal. I'm quite sure the part you received is going to be just fine. Pelican does a very good job of providing quality parts at good prices. Are they going to be the bottom dollar lowest price every time? Nope. But if you let Pelican know you found something alot cheaper than what their price is, you'll find that they will adjust it. Sometimes Wayne has been alerted to certain prices in his catalog that are a bit out of whack and he quickly rectifies it.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better overall system than what Pelican offers. The online catalog, the astounding wealth of technical knowledge in these forums, and the good customer service is very impressive in my opinion.

[sc_rufctr]

I read the whole thread and I was going to add something but I'm tired so going to bed instead.

[tharbert]

Delete? I disagree. It's not technical so probably would be better located in General Discussion. Several experts have waded in here and shone a little light on this subject...great info! I personally wouldn't expect a PAG part number on an OEM product but, obviously, some do. Wayne/Pelican Parts is big enough to withstand this debate. It is unfortunate this discussion started with a less than polite, somewhat disgruntled poster. Whether it stays or goes, I'm glad I got to read it.

[techman1]

Most significant about this thread is the tolerance of Wayne. Other forums are run so tight, you can't even point out the owner has a runny nose without the post being deleted.
This speaks volumes as to the integrity of Pelican Parts.

[Mitch Leland]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

The value of the original post, whether it's considered to be Wayne-bashing or whether some people think the poster should have re-negotiated the deal quietly and directly with Pelican, is that it has made apparent to a number of people, including me, that "OEM" doesn't mean exactly what we thought it did. For that, thank you.

Admittedly, it might have been better-phrased. Whether it's a "slippery sales tactic" or an industry usage with which many buyers aren't familiar is debatable.

"Slippery Sales Tactics" Tacky response...

[matt13421342]

I'm glad this topic has sparked some discussion. For the record, the first thing I did was contact Pelican, which is where I received the story about the manufacturing, which sounded shaky coming from the employee I talked to. They DID offer my money back, but that's hardly the point here. I'd like to respond to a few of the comments but before I do I want to be sure everyone reads Macroni's comments above. Unlike some of the other posters, he has a very clear understanding of how contract manufacturing works, why it's good, and why you can end up with inferior product using the same factory Porsche used.

Originally Posted by JerryL

Matt, Sounds like you want it both ways, you want the exact dealer piece in the P car bag BUT you dont want to pay the $$$
The P.Parts item is $29.50, I would imagine the price difference had more effect on you selecting Pelican for the purchase than your dedication to supporting the forum.
I think your apparent disgust with our slimey tactics host here is thinly veiled. Regards

Jerry, I actually never made it as far as you think I did. I needed the pedal and went to my first choice -- Pelican -- where I found an OEM (oops, not) pedal for sale by searching the Porsche part number. Even if I had checked Stoddard and seen the $100 pedal, I would not have been surprised that Pelican had the same (or what I would have assumed was the same) part for 1/3 the price, Stoddard isn't known for their competitive pricing and you can often find the same part for gobs less someplace else. I'm always willing to pay the premium for OEM parts vs China, I jut found the Pelican pedal first.

Originally Posted by berettafan

Dunno about 'deceptive' though. My guess is Pelican is just too big to accurately assess every product they re-sell and as such you're going to find bits here and there that aren't what you thought. The implication of 'deceptive' is that Wayne himself held the part in his hand along with an NOS part and said "hmmm....not nearly as nice so lets just dance around the truth in the description so we can sell these damned things". I just don't believe that is the case.

I'll stick with deceptive. With other parts available you can click on the manufacturer name and get a good description of who is making it. With this "OEM" thing you get a picture of a German flag and a dozen words. When you search you aren't given a list of pedals that include a true original and this repro, just this repro (even though Pelican sells the original). I don't know whether Wayne (whose name I have NOT brought up myself) checks repro parts for quality before he orders them, but he should. I worked for a VERY similar operation in the 1980s, we sold original and repro parts, for restoration and vintage racing. Whenever an opportunity came to stock a new repro part, the owner and retail manager would check it out before it was ordered. Then when it came in the warehouse manager (me) and the wholesale rep would also check them out. There are a lot of gatekeepers even in a small operation, and TRUST ME Pelican is not big enough for the ownership to be hands-off.

Besides, the problem was not with the quality of the part, which was below OE grade but not horrible by any stretch. The problem is in how it's being represented on this site and how the "errors of omission" stack up. I'm not trying to burn Pelican or its creator. I obviously use the forum and appreciate it, and I'm obviously not one of those people who use Pelican for the forum but goes elsewhere when they need to spend money. But I think this labeling practice is misleading at best, and deceptive at worst. I wanted to alert the public in the hopes that it will be changed to a more clear system.

[matt13421342]

In response to the people saying that I'm a victim of my own ignorance, there's obviously no consensus amongst the lay public for what the terms OE vs. OEM vs. Original even mean. This is similar to the debate I've seen many times on this and other Porsche boards about "NOS" and what that means.

Given the fact that the public as a whole seems to be confused, why not add more clarification to the part listing on the site? I worked in this industry and believe me I know the difference. An OE Bosch lens for an early H1 has the logo cast into the outside of the glass. An OEM replacement glass has the logo cast into the backside and a smooth front, different but same quality. The glass I see for sale at swap meets in brown cardboard sleeves may have been made at the same factory, but they do not say Bosch and are therefore not OE or OEM. Further, they have mold marks all over them and sections where the glass oozed out of the mold and left a flag sticking out, bubbles, who knows what. So even though they're made at the same factory, anyone who calls them OEM is misleading because the part is crap.

You can come at me all day with this stuff, I know it like the back of my hand and stand by my experience in manufacturing without reservation.

[matt13421342]

One more point of interest to those who don't think there's a little "steering" going on:

The system is setup -- whether intentionally or not -- even further to steer you to buy this pedal thinking it is original. When you search for the pedal, whether by part number or description, you are steered directly to the part I bought. HOWEVER, if you scroll down the page, and look to the far left corner there is a little 1-inch box that shows the real original part is available for $100+. Why would this not be listed in the regular search results along with the cheap one that Pelican seems to be pushing? I'll let the logic answer that.

[Scooter]

Why don't we let Wayne chime in before we have anymore discussion. It seems a little one-sided until he takes the opportunity to respond.

[Mitch Leland]

Matt,

I don't think the members are "coming at you", you've brought up a good point that most of us are unaware of so in that respect we're grateful. I think some us take exception to the way you framed Wayne and Pelican Parts. It's like calling your neighbors child ugly, you need to be a little more tactful.

I'm sure Wayne is listening and if he feels like there's some reason to re-visit his catalog he will, but name calling isn't the way to get the job done. You sound like too smart of a guy for that...

Enough said.

[KTL]

The $100 factory part cost is exactly what i'm referring to. It's got to be some kind of error on Pelican's part. It's a freaking plastic pedal. I do understand the exchange rate is to our disadvantage for a lot of the OE (not OEM) Porsche parts nowadays, but this pedal still shouldn't be $100...............

That's great you know your stuff and can split hairs 'til the cows come home. Fact still remains that Pelican strives to sell quality parts and your idea of quality may not be the same as theirs. Agree to disagree, I guess. In all honesty I fault you for even buying a new pedal. These things almost last forever and if yours did indeed fail in some way (worn out ball cup or broken hinge or just plain worn and crappy looking), you should consider looking for a used one to nearly guarantee you're getting the original Porsche part. If you posted a Want To Buy (WTB) ad in the classifieds here for a 74-89 pedal, you'd probably have 5 people in 5 minutes telling you they have one collecting dust ever since they switched to bling bling aluminum RACING pedals, and they'll give it to you for the cost of shipping. There's another huge feature of Pelican parts- the great people who frequent this place.

[Jay Laifman]

I'm posting my support of PP and similar suppliers. This is a live and learn situation, nothing more, nothing less. OEM is as indicated - same manufacturer, not necessarily the same spec. It's meant the same for decades, nothing new about it. While perhaps the general public may not know (or care) about the difference, most saavy auto persons do know.

I've posted to this site many a time about my experiences in buying parts at Porsche, Pelican and Performance, and how there is often a noticable difference between Porsche direct parts. And as they say, you get what you pay for. Often times the part from Porsche is considerably more morey than the other suppliers (thus your comments about Stoddard prices). But, yes, the difference is there and, to me, it's worth it.

To me, it's all part and parcel of those frequent postings here about what tires to get for a Porsche. Why pay for and own a high performance Porsche which rolls off the factory ready to hit a track, and then put on sub high performance tires? Sure, for parts that don't matter for performance, buy the less expensive part. But, when it comes to vehicle operations, you get what you pay for.

[Matt Monson]

The only thing I question in this situation is the assertion that Wayne and Pelican are being slippery or deceptive. I just can't get on board with that thinking. I will make the example of transmission synchro hubs.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_TRANSM_pg1.htm#item3

To me it clearly says "OEM supplier". It doesn't say "Genuine Porsche". Other places he lists parts as genuine but when they aren't genuine they are clearly marked as "other". I haven't been to every single page of Wayne's catalog but in my browsing of it I find him to be pretty consistent in how he describes and advertises things. And I don't think that Pelican is trying to pass of non-Porsche parts as something Porsche.

[crustychief]

I have never been disappointed with any of the Porsche or BMW parts I have ordered. Always a perfect fit and fast shipping. Thanks for pointing out the bottom-of-the-page-far-left-corner thing though.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by tharbert

I personally wouldn't expect a PAG part number on an OEM product but, obviously, some do.

Agree, and to go even further, when a part is described as "OEM" I would expect that a Porsche part number is NOT going to be on the part.

[dtw]

I better take a baseball bat to my $750 Hella 139 lamps. They didn't come from Porsche w/a PAG label, so they are clearly repro garbage, and I was swindled.

Hmmm, when I got my rear reflectors, one of them was in a Bosch box, and one was in a Porsche box of the exact same dimensions. I can't remember which is which at this point, so I better crush 'em both.