BEWARE Pelican's Slippery Sales Tactics

[matt13421342]

I've always tried to support the site when I can. Even though buying parts from Stoddard is often easier and faster, I use this forum so I feel it's good practice to spend your money here. This is why I decided to order a new accelerator pedal from Pelican. I searched for the pedal using the part number from my old unit and found it. Under brand it said OEM, which is what I wanted so I ordered it. The pedal arrived and it's an average-quality reproduction, no part number at all. I called Pelican and they said that OEM doesn't mean original part, but that the part is made at the same factory as the original. He said the pedal was made at the same place the factory uses but is less expensive because it's not technically a Porsche part. Huh? I'd LOVE to see that substantiated. Something tells me Porsche wouldn't allow a factory they are using to make replacement parts to knock a few off on the side for extra profit.

Looking around the site I found a number of similarly misleading parts. This is a serious low for Pelican Parts. Had they said on the web page that the part is an aftermarket replacement of good quality, would they sell less? Probably. But the people who are willing to use a Chinese part to save money would do it without the shroud of lies currently in effect. People like me who want an original part don't want the Chinese crap no matter how cheap. And I REALLY don't want to be tricked into buying it.

If you're ordering from Pelican, beware. You may think you know where your part is coming from but the truth may be a few layers buried.

[WilsonTC]

Google "OEM" and this is the first thing that pops up:

Original Equipment Manufacturer

An original equipment manufacturer, or OEM, manufactures products or components which are purchased by a second company and retailed under the second company's brand name. It is a form of outsourcing.

Contradictory Definition
Confusingly, OEM may also refer to a company that purchases a component made by a second company for use in its own product, or sells the product of the second company under its own brand name. Companies who follow these practices are better termed value added resellers or resellers, respectively.

If it were an "original" part, it would be listed with the name of the manufacturer (e.g. Porsche, Bosch, etc.).

[mpetry]

Well I understand you are disappointed with the part, that's perfectly OK, so send it back, Pelican's return policy is pretty good. In my opinion Pelican is the best of the bunch; I don't think it's right to assume that everything marked OEM in the catalog is el cheapo.

Generally I think Pelican's stuff is well described and of good quality. It may be that the original product was sold out long ago or are no longer available. Stoddard may have an actual Porsche pedal, but you'll pay a price there, to be sure.

There may be exceptions, but if you want deceptive selling practices, no refunds, and disappointing merchandise, have a look at Performance Products or even Eboy.

And now for some car pics:







Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA

[Jgordon]

Before reading the second post, I would have assumed OEM meant Porsche. Especially with this as a tagline:
Rubber wearing out on your foot pedals? Is your accelerator pedal wobbling back and forth? Replace them with factory original replacement pedals.

I looked, and some had manufacturer: OEM while others said Genuine Porsche. Live and learn I guess. Easily confused, and I don't think the descriptions help.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

There's a difference between "OEM" and "OE". OEM = original equipment manufacturer. In other words, the same company that originally subcontracted to the manufacturer to make parts for their cars now continues to make parts. OE = original equipment. The stuff that is part numbered, to factory spec, etc.

Some aftermarket stuff is good, some is crap. Some OEM stuff is good, some is crap. Hell, some OE stuff is good and some is crap. For authenticity, insist on OE only.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

There's a difference between "OEM" and "OE". OEM = original equipment manufacturer. In other words, the same company that originally subcontracted to the manufacturer to make parts for their cars now continues to make parts. OE = original equipment. The stuff that is part numbered, to factory spec, etc.

Some aftermarket stuff is good, some is crap. Some OEM stuff is good, some is crap. Hell, some OE stuff is good and some is crap. For authenticity, insist on OE only.

[m110]

Originally Posted by matt13421342

Something tells me Porsche wouldn't allow a factory they are using to make replacement parts to knock a few off on the side for extra profit.

.

You are wrong. Porsche is a parts assembly and engineering business, as is every auto company. It is universally accepted that the subcontractors sell the parts (OEM) through their own networks--usually after some agreed time period and if there is demand (some C4 tranny parts have never been available outside the factory supply). That is why this site exists for OEM parts. The difference is that you don't get the Porsche part number, factory guarantee, and possibly a part from a different production run from the one that was used in original OE production. Thus the value of NOS (New Old Stock) parts for the purists. Sometimes that substandard piece of junk you get from some parts place like our host is exactly the same junk you get from Porsche. ex. go buy a coil for 72 911S at Porsche and it says "Made in Brazil" or an H4 headlight that doesn't actually say "Bosch" except for on the box whether it comes from Porsche or Pelican. Eventually Porsche says, "forget it" and stops supporting old car parts--the subcontractors then produce for as long (Bosch distributor caps) or short (Marelli) as they choose.

[skrufy]

A friend in Europe used to work for Porsche some years back, and now brokers cars and parts all over the world- if you really need something Porsche, he's your man.... if he can't find/get it thru his network of sources- it's not probably not available anywhere...

case in point: I was recently looking for those stupid headlight washers for my '77 930- the big ugly ones shaped like a bent thumb- only used in 76-77 before going to the more sensible flush mounts..... he told me he had already been looking for them- why? because the mid-70s cars are becoming more desirable/cheaper to aquire, as the earlier cars are gobbled up and becoming more and more expensive..... the last 3 NOS "E.T." washers (as in E.T.- phone home!) in the box known to exist anywhere in the world- and there was a R & L side- a $20 part or so, sold at $500 each within the last year or so, by some buyer that just had to have original to be max authentic..(not knocking the buyer here- it was his money...) I finally found two serviceable ones, and only two, in one of the many Porsche yards around the country- not real pretty, but better than the ones I had.... also had gaskets- NLA- ka put.....

Once while visiting him in the early 90's, Porsche came to him and ordered about 50 pair of the early chrome 911 horn grills- either the 2 or the 4 screw variety, which ever was the rare one.... he finds the original manufacturer somewhere in Europe, asks them if they can make more- most jump at the chance because they have tooling that Porsche doesn't pay for- (nor Ford, GM, etc..) to recover some of their costs, plus probably charge a higher price for a small batch..... he gives PAG a price, they OK, then he has them make say 100 pair- cheaper in a larger lot, and he knows that the 50 pair is not enough to support the world market for restoration, etc as the older cars get more desirable.... so, the next time they need more grills, he charges them thru the nose...(he told PAG that 50 pair wasn't enough- but oh well.....)

Porsche contracts thru such individuals because it is cheaper for them to do so vs. paperwork, budgets, etc

He told me to make those headlight squirters, out of the original tooling, in India, would take a minimum order of 1000 pairs- cost prohibitive vs the few cars that had them as options, world market, etc.... most friends I know yanked them out and put the flush 78s in the bumpers- those are still available.....

So, you can get OEM or OE made by the same company or tooling, but no Porsche part numbers..... could be good/bad... they still sell the early/mid 911 OEM/OE? p.o.s. headlight flasher/turn signal switch don't they....?

If anybody smacked up their 904, 910, or factory 935 this past weekend, I know where to go for the original factory body molds.... no more NOS on those parts, but as original as the originals IMHO

I do agree with the original posting: I hate getting the "new" part only to find out it has been superseded- and now I have to engineer it to get it to fit.... and hate "Made in China"- which is where PAG now buys it's hood badges- sent that one back to Pelican- looked like crap on my car- polished/buffed the old one with it's "original" sand pits, etc- then clear coated.....

Tim
'77 930

[Geronimo '74]

It is true that the parts discription may not be equally clear to everybody. (I think I would be mistaken as well, just like you)
Did you talk to someone from PP about your unsatisfying purchase before you vented your concerns here?? Thus giving them a chance to undertake necessary action to make you a happy customer again.
If yes, good on you.
You would not be the first to complain first and ask questions later.
It's been said before, PP has a good return policy.

[cdrik915]

A simple example of "OEM" , Dansk brand ,mufflers and exhausts.

I receive mine with an official sticker "OEM part , licenced by Porsche"

Dansk is the factory but they work with a Porsche agreement i think.

[Macroni]

Complicated subject. I am a manufacturer that produces licensed, Branded and private label products. Not for Porsche. The difference comes down to quality standards and build specification. There is a difference, sometimes minor w/ little variability from the gold standard. There are other times when the difference is major yet the appearance is identical.

In my business,
Branded or OEM would be built to Porsche specification by or for Porsche. Branded parts should have the branded codes and markings. This ultimately means Porsche stands behind the part.

Private Label would be produced or replicated by a competing or independent entity to duplicate the branded part. The tangible difference would be the part would not be built using the branded specifications. Again quality could be equal or better.

Licensed normally is the licensee's spec w/ the brands approval. This isn't the gospel.

There was also an issue w/ goods produced in China. A patent / trademark attorney could provide the legal aspects.

[sig_a]

The alternate place to buy Porsche parts is from your local Porsche dealership. You order from trained staff, who provide guidance in selecting the correct part. If you get it wrong, take it back. Price is competitive considering cross country delivery charge from carrier, which you can double if you have to return it. Most dealerships are more than willing to compete with online suppliers. In addition, PCA members are generally given 10 percent discount. Dealers also have much better access to Genuine Porsche or original catalog parts than any online dealer. Good dealerships will match or exceed online suppliers, especially if you are a repeat customer. Don't believe it? Check it out.

[JerryL]

Matt, Sounds like you want it both ways, you want the exact dealer piece in the P car bag BUT you dont want to pay the $$$

The pedal subject caught my eye as in finishing up the 71 911 Targa after paint motor out ect, some dumb ass (read me) put it some place yet to be found in the clutter of the project remnants.

So last Sat morning prior to going out of town I say call Stoddards put one on order it will be here when you get home (note they are a few hundred mi away vs 2500 for P parts) then WTF $105+ for the pedal, I need to look a bit harder.

The P.Parts item is $29.50, I would imagine the price difference had more effect on you selecting Pelican for the purchase than your dedication to supporting the forum.
I think your apparent disgust with our slimey tactics host here is thinly veiled.

In the mean time I pulled a pedal from the 67 912 targa (of coarse I sold the one from the 68 parts car at Hershey :-) ) If it remains lost I will definitely order one from the west coast.

BTW Great looking cars Mark, as always.

Regards

[berettafan]

I would've assumed I was getting the original part (or an identical one made by the same people) as well.

Dunno about 'deceptive' though. My guess is Pelican is just too big to accurately assess every product they re-sell and as such you're going to find bits here and there that aren't what you thought. The implication of 'deceptive' is that Wayne himself held the part in his hand along with an NOS part and said "hmmm....not nearly as nice so lets just dance around the truth in the description so we can sell these damned things". I just don't believe that is the case.

As an interesting aside i've lost interest in dealing with Stoddard after getting the most pitiful excuse for a gas tank support during my front pan replacement. No mention in the description of it being a crap part whatsoever. But then I was at Hershey and they had what were labled as ss S caliper pistons for a fraction of what others charge. So......I guess it just takes a while to learn the lay of the land with replacement parts. I'm new to this and suspect that most old car buffs could tell the same stories no matter what their brand of choice.

Certainly pictures of every part would help clarify a bit.

[avi8torny]

Originally Posted by matt13421342

Looking around the site I found a number of similarly misleading parts. This is a serious low for Pelican Parts. People like me who want an original part don't want the Chinese crap no matter how cheap. And I REALLY don't want to be tricked into buying it.

If you're ordering from Pelican, beware. You may think you know where your part is coming from but the truth may be a few layers buried.

I'm sure Wayne doesn't have this elaborate scheme to "trick" you into buying parts. Surely bashing him on the forum that he provides is a bit disrespectul.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

The value of the original post, whether it's considered to be Wayne-bashing or whether some people think the poster should have re-negotiated the deal quietly and directly with Pelican, is that it has made apparent to a number of people, including me, that "OEM" doesn't mean exactly what we thought it did. For that, thank you.

Admittedly, it might have been better-phrased. Whether it's a "slippery sales tactic" or an industry usage with which many buyers aren't familiar is debatable.

[bluesky]

[scottbombedout]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

The value of the original post, whether it's considered to be Wayne-bashing or whether some people think the poster should have re-negotiated the deal quietly and directly with Pelican, is that it has made apparent to a number of people, including me, that "OEM" doesn't mean exactly what we thought it did. For that, thank you.

Admittedly, it might have been better-phrased. Whether it's a "slippery sales tactic" or an industry usage with which many buyers aren't familiar is debatable.

I'm amazed too. I thought OEM was a part approved or licensed by Porsche.

Also dont think its slippery. I think its just a term used in industry that a lot of people, obviously me included dont understand.

[69911e]

Misleading, yes. Pelicanc's fault, no.
Think of it this way, Bridgestone is an OEM for Porsche. They also sell junk Bridgestone tires at Walmart. These Walmart tires are OEM for Porsche because it is the original manufacturer.
I find the best way if not labeled OE, is to call and ask if it is identical to the original part.

[jimbauman]

Read what Pelican says about OEM on their Help page:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/OrderingFAQ.htm

Scroll down to the question about OEM ...

JB