Winter Storage Help

[wieringa@mcn.ne]

First winter of storing my (1st) Porsche and I wondered if there we anything I should do prior to storage. Winter came hard and fast here in Western Montana and temps tonight near zero. Sadly I don't have a heated garage but I will have frequent access to it so I can fire it up periodically. Will probably be 6 months before it's Porsche weather again.... Any semi long term storage tips?

Thanks

KW

[Paulporsche]

If you search, you will find a huge number of thoughts on this.

Just a few to get you going:

Pump up the tires
Fill the gas tank
Use Stabil
Cover it
Open one window a crack
If rodents can get to it, plug the tailpipe and try to keep them away from the engine compartment
Don't forget you plugged the tailpipe come next spring
Put the battery on a tender
Change the oil
A non heated garage is probably better than a heated one
Leave the handbrake off
Don't go and periodically start it up unless you drive it and get it up to operating temp

Sorry to hear winter came so soon.

[Zef]

Porsche Club of America, Russell's Tech Tips
Please, don't fire it up during the storage.
It will be my turn in a month...so start the winter project list.

[911s55]

Here's an old thread.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/183215-winter-storage-checklist.html

[88-diamondblue]

Once mine goes to bed for the winter it does not get started until it is time to start driving in the spring. Starting it without getting it up to operating temp creates moisture that can cause corrosion in the engine. The above comments pretty much cover it all. Hate this time of the year: no more FUN driving...

[docrodg]

Do not start it unless you drive it. Remove battery and store warm. Only other thing not covered above is a question of how humid your winter is. Up here it is very dry so no issues if rubber/vinyl is treated first but if it is moist then you could get a little corrosion on brake rotors. Don't oil them, jsut put a dehumidifier in the area and if needed have them surfaced come spring.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

You're gonna have to plug a lot more than the exhaust pipes if you have a rodent problem. It's probably more important to make sure the heater flappers are fully closed and maybe even taped over. Once field mice get in there, they make a huge mess.

I've also had mice climb up inside the B pillars to the space between headliner and roof and make nests up there, and I have no idea how to prevent that.

Basically, if you have a rodent problem, it needs to be solved before you store the car. There's nothing on god's green earth that will keep determined field mice out of a 911--not magic potions, not fox pee, not mothballs, not dryer sheets, not even a shaman dancing around the car. The only solution I finally found, storing the car in a rural barn, was a serious, zippered, heavy-gauge car bag.

[Grady Clay]

When stored in an un-heated space, critical is the temperature variation and the ‘mean temperature’.

If the variation is around freezing or the dew point, this is very bad, even in a relatively dry climate. The combination of a cold car and warm(er) and more humid air lead to condensation (& frost) inside cold ’closed’ spaces. Like cars, instruments, engines & transmissions. Wide temperature variation exacerbates the situation.

This is caused by two factors; changes in temperature and changes in atmospheric pressure. The temperature usually changes daily (day-to-night) and the barometer on a 3-day (sorta) cycle. Every time the environment temperature goes up or the atmospheric pressure goes up, air and any moisture is forced into any space not hermetically sealed. Cold surfaces condense the moisture (to liquid or frost) and damage is done.

What to do?

Keep the temperature constant. Prevent variations around the dew point. A well insulated space with lots of ‘thermal mass’ and very low humidity works well. There are mechanical de-humidifiers designed to operate in below-freezing conditions. 55-gallon drums of water (with anti-freeze) work well for ‘thermal mass’. Most plastic barrels won’t leak if frozen.

Some use a de-humidified ‘tent’ (big Ziploc) inside a garage. This has the advantage of preventing moisture intrusion and the mechanical dehumidifier provides some heat.

I agree about rodents. Good ‘snap-traps’ work well if attended to daily. A few desiccated corpses tend to discourage others.

Depending on where you live in Western Montana, you can actually drive your 911 in winter. Find snowed over (or dry) roads that do not have applications of Magnesium Chloride. Nice ol’ snow melts and evaporates without harm. The key is a reasonable and ‘aggressive’ drive to get everything up to temperature. That includes engine, transmission, brakes, clutch and more. A periodic stint at dry 80F inside also helps. The 911 doesn’t like to sit – it is a ‘runner’. This athlete needs weekly exercise. If that isn’t possible, then a good strenuous ‘work-out’ when possible is best. Never start without hard running.

All this leads in to the type of ‘winter preparation’ done. Some preparation is designed for years (or decades) of storage. That long of storage usually requires significant rebuilding of systems.

We are considering storage prep that still allows use when the conditions allow. Clearly fresh (dry & clean) oil is high on the list. To my mind, fuel is critical. Pump gasoline has a short ‘shelf life’. Stabil helps. You might consider unleaded 100 octane aviation fuel. It is designed to sit for long periods and then perform to high level.

I use always dry Nitrogen in my tires. The key here is to not have any moisture in the tires. Condensation to liquid water or frost to water ice can be a big issue. Some tires can loose bead seal at very low temperatures (my Michelin steel tow-truck tires go flat at about -30F if not at 110 psi). Set yours at the high end of specification and then bleed down to drive.

When you drive your 911 in winter, try and drive fast, high power (and uphill) as you go to storage. Park it HOT.


I’ll encourage you to search all the threads (Pelican & other) on this subject and post the links. A good project can be to compile ALL the suggestions and offer them for comment. There are lots of skills here. The issues are for 911s not regularly driven, ones for winter storage and the occasional decade storage. There are differences among 911 models. Each situation is different and there are many variations in between and depending on environment.

Best,
Grady

[mpetry]

Grady as always very informative post, thank you for the great info.

Here on gilligan's island, we have moderate temps that do cycle above and below the dew point, plus the water is about 200 yards from my house. It's an ideal environment for corrosion.

One of the things people do here when they put a sail boat up for the winter is to tent the cabin, and put a couple light bulbs inside, along with a box fan. That keeps air moving and (reasonably) warm - really reduces condensation.

Years ago I had an early P-Car stored outside under a carport. I did this exact thing - covered it, light bulb and box fan inside, and it was happy ! If you crack the windows, a little airflow will get around the body, and keep things warm and dry.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA
81 SC

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I used to warm up airplane engines this way, for an early-morning winter flight: Put a trouble light into the cowling the night before, cover the cowl with a blanket and come back and fly the next morning. The Cassandras would always warn me that "the bulb could blow and start a fire." Never did.

[wieringa@mcn.ne]

Guys, Thanks for all the good tips. Good to know to do a serious warmup or nothing at all. Don't think I have a mouse problem and don't want to find out. Going to try lots of decon and maybe set up "nesting box" on the other side of the garage. I have seen this used before and the theory is to try and give them a more appealing place to nest other than the car. Then when it's time to warm up the car you hook the exhaust up to the box......
Just did the 500 mile trip to pick up my winter project, 69 Sprite with a Datsun A12 engine with a 5 speed. Also has a light weight fiberglass early Bugeye hood.
Runs, doesn't stop - $800 with 4 new wheels.

Thanks again

KW

[Grady Clay]

Stephan,

Aah, yes the blanket.

That reminds me of the gold ’69 911S that a customer (and eventually long-time friend) applied on a cold night. The kid’s ‘blankee’ was to keep the ‘S’ warm during a restaurant dinner, about Dec. 70.

After dinner, the ‘blankee’ was neglected. The engine fan totally consumed it.

Over several months (!) we tried to diagnose the MFI running. Needless to say, there wasn’t any outward sign and Tom didn’t connect the incident. Eventually we found the cylinders, heads, cooler, etc. covered with the remnants. Thankfully it was mid-winter in Colorado. No long-term damage.

It was good for the Gold 911 that “He had a friend in the Porsche business.”

More Gold 911s.

Best,
Grady