Advice/suggestions on buying that first 911

[mkc1962]

Howdy folks...been lurking here for a few years. Appear to be a very knowledgeable serious about the topic group of folks.

I'm hoping to soon buy my first ever 911. Been wanting one for many years, and have had quite a few other nice cars. From what Ive viewed over the years it seems the 78-83 SC's seems to be the most sought after,reliable, easy to work on models. Yes I turn all my own wrenches so self reliance is important to me. That being said I, I don't want anything that requires me to depend on a dealer for anything. Namely dealing with ecm fault codes that require anything other than obd1 or 0bd11 diagnostic equipment. I am aware that some fine imports, still are dealer only readable. Obviously the older units don't fall into this, but I am not aware of say the 84-97 models. Any input on this topic?

If you were buying your first ever 911, and a DIY like myself, what model year might ya recommend?

any and all input geatly appreciated!

Mike Crawford
Valley Grande, AL

[Dueller]

The 84-89 Carreras are the last of the old school/first of the modern era cars IMO. Best buy for the money I would guess is the pre-G50 transmission models (84-86) as 87-89 command a few grand premium because of the G50.

OBDI...is that a character from star wars?

[mkc1962]

Thanks for the imput...Yeah I do seem to see more of the 84-89 models more moderatley priced than some mint 78-83's. Ive got lots of experience with the kjet fuel systems, but little to none on the motronic which came about in 84. I guess lack of experience on that tends to make me shy away from those model years. Maybe someone can give me some insight on that.

Ha...that would be OBWAN!

[m110]

87-89 if you can afford it, as above (I am biased)
84-86--same car, tranny sometimes an issue in terms of wear but terrific when rebuilt, new, updated
78-83 similar car, same looks, minimum 26 y old, different engine, rock solid when maintained
search SC versus Carrera or 3.0 vs 3.2...plenty here on these issues

[m110]

Also, pick up a guide: Zimmerman (a Pelican) Excellence was expected...but
or search here once you have some background

I find this online guide very good
Porsche 911 Buyers Guide Learn how to Inspect a Porsche 911

[Dueller]

The CIS (SC 78-83) baffles me...I'm more comfortable with the motronic of the Carreras (84-89).

I have driven a relatively few SC's (maybe 4-5) and Carreras (5-6) and they just drive a bit differently even looking past the 915 transmission. SC's seem more rev happy and Carreras seem more torque-y. In stock form the Carrera will outrun an SC but just barely. I like the motronic because of tuning with a SW chip...although there is some hop up ability with the SC's not available in the Carrera.

If comfortable with SC's CIS injection I think you could find an equivalent car to a later model a bit less than a carrera...but not a whole lot of difference...maybe $2-3K difference at best.

Either one is an excelelnt first 911....provided they have been maintained. And don'y be afraid of a high mileage car (!30K+ miles) if it has been maintained by an enthusiast.

Whatever you do, don't get in a hurry...there are a number of nice cars out there at very reasonable prices in this economy.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by mkc1962

From what Ive viewed over the years it seems the 78-83 SC's seems to be the most sought after,reliable, easy to work on models.

Factoring in price, that was true 5-10 years ago, before the 84-89 Carreras had fully depreciated.

But they all have bottomed out by now, so IMO the 84-89 Carrera is a better value.


The CIS on the SC isn't a bad system, as you know, but it does date back to the 60s in design, and the very early 70s in first use.

The Motronic system used on the 84-89 is very modern, and IMO a simpler and overall more reliable system. It's actually in the "sweet spot" for modernness. Easier to work on than the cars that came before it, and the ones that came after it (they got increasingly more complex, more electronics, more crowded engine compartment, etc.) If you can understand and work on KJet/CIS, then Motronic is a snap. Get a Bentley manual and a multimeter and you can diagnose anything (unlike the CIS system, which works on hydraulic pressure, Motronic is all electronic, using electric sensors, which are all easy to test with a multimeter).

For an 84-89, get the newest one you can afford. The 87-89 are the most desired because of their updated transmission (called the G50), and are usually priced accordingly, but if you look enough you can find G50 cars at great prices.

The 87-89 also has all of the updated the car received through the years.

The 86 is a bit of an "interim" car, it had a lot of the updates (like seats, larger dash vents and some other trim), but the old transmission.

The 84-85 are the "early" versions of the car. These are the lowest priced.

Good luck, these are great cars!

[mkc1962]

Continued thanks for the replies and insights. In a hurry I'm not. Ive been looking but not seriously for about a year. As one of you stated this economy is sorta buyers market right now, was thinking of going ahead and making that purchase. I'm a sucker for a project, but this time I think I'm gonna go for something thats nice and doesn't need much. Ive got two full restorations on older vehicles going as it is. For those days when I just need to get away and enjoy the road, I surely don't need a nother project.

As I'm quite picky about taking care of things,I tend to take more interest in those that have been well maintained and can prove it. High mileage I don't mind, if well maintained.

M110....I'll check out that on-line guide you recommended, thanks...where can one get the Zimmerman?

[Dueller]

You've probably read this section of this forum...it is a bit dated but it puts a lot in perspective:

Pelican Parts: 911 FAQ Version 2.2

[tnchris]

My 84 has been my only mode of transportation for over 2 years. I have had to replace the DME relay once, adjust the valves twice, and replace a couple of oil seals on the top of the motor. For a 25 year old daily driver, thats not bad. The car is very easy to work on, and honesly built very well. Durability is definatly not an issue with these cars. Btw, my car has around 160K miles on it and runs great, so don't be too scared of mileage, as long as you have some records.

[G450X]

After looking at quite a few 911's from SC's to 964 C2's. I was dead set on an '87-'89 to get the G50 which I had talked myself into based on many years of Excellence articles and discussions about the different models. I almost talked myself into few few "o.k." examples, and I placed a premium on '89's to get the 9" rear rims and the last of the classic 911 series.

After I wasted money on some PPI's I tried a more practical approach that is echoed in many Excellence articles - look for the best example in the basic configuration I wanted (a coupe in any color but black or red) and find a well kept example and take into consideration everything that could cost $$ down the road - $5k-$8k in the engine/transmission or the paint/interior to make it right was a no-go. Try to decide how you want to use the car as well, a driver or garage queen or somewhere in-between (mine) - do you want to pay $25-$30K for a mint example, or $15K-$20K (or $10k-$15k) for a well used driver with lots of life left?

A well kept 915 tranny will shift as good as most G-50's, and it is less $$ to repair. My 915 shifts as good as the five low mile G-50 equipped 911's and 964's that I drove. I have a RS shifter and shift coupler to install that should make things even better.

Almost everything on the little SC I ended up with worked. The A/C blew cold and was updated. It had Carrera tensioners and the pop-off valve installed. The original interior, besides a few nicks in the headliner, was in very good shape and it was black - easy to source parts.

CIS scares many people, but in all honesty, most parts can be obtained new or used and it is a fairly basic FI system that has proven to be reliable. If you want to make more power than what backdating the exhaust and 964 cams will offer, you need to look elsewhere from what I've read.

The search is part of the fun, but it can be frustrating and time consuming at times, and cost money in and of itself. I looked hard for probably 6 months, and after the Monterey Historic races I was consumed in finding the right car. Is my little SC perfect? It hardly is, but man it's a fun little rascal. It fires up immediately, has good power and runs smooth from idle to redline. I love the torque of the little 3.0, and I just picked up SSI's and an M&K Sport exhaust to waken it up a bit. It was the right mix of condition for me and I picked it up at a good price.

If I want more gizmos & speed, I'll jump in my e46 M3. The SC is a somewhat modern version of the classic 60's machine. It has a few more bells and whistles than the early cars, but a few less than a later Carrera. The build quality, plywood floorboards, cables galore, good visibility, I could go on and on of course... It has a charm that the latter day electronic laden machines have lost. Don't get me wrong, the newer 911, M3's etc., are fantastic, but lack a bit of that raw sports car that a vintage 911 has. Another bonus with the old ones - one usually can work on them and fix that electronic glitch on the side of the road (a newer one - probably not). I'd say in the pre-'89 911's at least you would have a fightin' chance if you had a few key spares in the boot. They are pretty depreciated out as well, and will probably maintain (or appreciate a bit) in value.

Good luck in the search, have fun, and don't settle for something that does not "speak" to you....

[chamilun]

mkc1962
check your PM

[Jeff Higgins]

A play on Bruce Anderson's advice - "buy the oldest Porsche you can afford".

I can't think of a better Porsche than an early ('73 and older) 911 for a DIY-er and car hobbyist. They are by far the simplest in terms of electronic gee-gaws (or lack thereof), induction systems, and everything else. Plus, the driving experience is like no other car before or since. Newer 911's a great wallowing pigs in comparison.

[mkc1962]

Dueller....Yep have read that in detail


chamilun...I replied, Thanks


Jeff Higgins...I do like the old ones, old anything....and have not totally written off that option.



G450X....Good read there....and yes...the "speak to me mode". is where I am at.