Seine Shifter Modification! The BEST $150 I have spent on my 911

[donagain1]

The issue with my "85's shifter woes is not from slop in either the shifter handle or gates, or worn coupler bushings, but from the "wall" that's hit from the synchro itself. If Porsche's engineering in the design/manufacturing stage of the shifter was sound to begin with, and hadn't undergone any fundamental improvements over multiple year models, there wouldn't be such a variety of aftermarket parts to fix the issues. Sheesh, despite all the Lucas electrical and oil leakage problems with vintage British sportscars, at least my former '53 MGTD's short throw with positive detents shifted like a dream. I wonder what took Porsche so long to work this stuff out.

[efhughes3]

A G50 can suffer from a missed shift, the same as a 915. I know a few people who opened their wallets to rebuild >86 3.2's.

I find that the trans is part of the Porsche charm.

The issue with my "85's shifter woes is not from slop in either the shifter handle or gates, or worn coupler bushings, but from the "wall" that's hit from the synchro itself. If Porsche's engineering in the design/manufacturing stage of the shifter was sound to begin with, and hadn't undergone any fundamental improvements over multiple year models, there wouldn't be such a variety of aftermarket parts to fix the issues. Sheesh, despite all the Lucas electrical and oil leakage problems with vintage British sportscars, at least my former '53 MGTD's short throw with positive detents shifted like a dream. I wonder what took Porsche so long to work this stuff out.

[BarryJB]

Originally Posted by deshetlr

I installed a Seine gate shift kit and Ed's coupler. Only drove it a couple times but it is certainly a much more precise setup than stock (915 with factory short shift). For those of you concerned about this mod here is a photo of the finished product. Thats right, you can't see any difference. Biggest issue? removing and re-installing the console.

For those (apparently few!) of us that keep the rubber AND leather boots, I've noticed for some time that when you move to the 1-2 plane, particularly the leather boot stretches on the R side and thus rubs on the Seine adjustment nut and due to the (I agree with others - but acknowledge Sherwood's comment) slightly weak spring action, tends to limit the free & positive return feel (more than fact) of the lever to the 3-4 plane - it's a bit sluggish and feels iffy on that last inch or so.

Placing a short piece of suitably-sized metal tube over the top part of the red spring bracket stops the boot interfering with the Seine play-adjustment nut as it goes up and down. I had a junk-box spacer that worked great. ID needs to be just enough let it slip over the top stub of the red tube on the Seine piece without wobbling, and allows the nut to move freely up and down inside this tube without touching the rubber boot or rubbing on the stretched leather boot, and just tall enough that with the nut all the way up (shifter in 1-2 plane on a 915) the nut/bolt end is still below the top of the tube. Nothing other than gravity to install, plus boots tend to retain it in place.

Further, securing a small strip of flexible plastic or rubber vertically on the outside right of the Seine spring bracket and running just over the top of the added tube (cable ties) prevents rubbing a hole in the leather on the edge of this added tube.

I'd also thought adding another compression spring in a curved-inward tube fixed above the nut to increase the spring rate a bit to address this, but all-in-all, now the lever freely returns to the 3-4 plane, I'm a happy camper again. Spring may not be very strong compared to 5-R side, but IMO it's enough, as long as nothing interferes.

BTW, on my now installed "hybrid" Seine/Wevo setup - with the Wevo gateshift inside the 915, the Seine spring with this added tube, OEM shifter 5-R tab/pawl retained (to keep R lock-out), but Seine 1-2 tabs & L-side tang removed (no longer needed), it works and feels GREAT.

Just had 915 rebuilt, and added the Wevo not to supersede any deficiency in the Seine re shifting feel & accuracy improvements, but for the extra insurance, since in theory it will prevent selecting two gears at once no matter how badly adjusted, worn or broken the shifter linkage may be/become...

And IMO, the Seine is STILL the best $150.

"Hurrying slowly" with a solid 915 with a Seine shifter is a joy... like Ed said, it's absolutely part of the charm.

[deshetlr]

I just used an acorn nut and stopper not on top of the adjustment screw. Serve the same purpose.

[BarryJB]

Originally Posted by deshetlr

I just used an acorn nut and stopper not on top of the adjustment screw. Serve the same purpose.

Tried that on mine first, didn't help, the newish leather boot prolly too stiff and snug
Still, either way a great fix using just one or two junk-box parts!

[flat6pilot]

+2 for the Seine Shifter Mod. NIGHT and DAY difference during DE's. I no longer even think about the 5th to 4th shift. It just happens.

[hyperkinesis]

my issue with the seine was problems with 5th and reverse grae...for some reason
the second time I try to shift to reverse the spring inside or some broke and now I have the 5th and reverse gear lose no srping return or very dificult to find the this 2 gears.. and second gear is so king of hard to shift... I like the fealing of the gears but the happy ends very quick

[efhughes3]

Originally Posted by hyperkinesis

my issue with the seine was problems with 5th and reverse grae...for some reason
the second time I try to shift to reverse the spring inside or some broke and now I have the 5th and reverse gear lose no srping return or very dificult to find the this 2 gears.. and second gear is so king of hard to shift... I like the fealing of the gears but the happy ends very quick

I'd bet that is not the fault of the Seine unit, but rather your installation, or something else wrong with your shifter.

[Walt Fricke]

Yes, take it all apart and start over. Maybe the clip on the left side of the cross pin (which is one of the new Seine pieces) wasn't put on properly, fell off, and the pin has shifted to the right. That would cause you to lose spring tension in 5/R.

[hyperkinesis]

thanks for the info... now I set my seine works great but now then I change from 1 to 2nd at more than 3,500rpm make a noise like bad syncro but the 1-2-and 3rd are new,,, and the first and send gear are some heavy to engage sometines I have to push hard to get 1rt gear and pull hard to get 2nd gear

[piscator]

Barry, thanks for the info! That's very helpful to my new install.

Robert

[Url]

My setup: console delete, shortened shift tube (+- 5cm), shifter with custom straight gear lever and custom carpeting.

I've been using the Seine shifter for +5 years now and very happy with the set-up. It really transformed the car and gives me confidence on and off track. Imho, one of the best price/quality mods you can do on a 911 with a 915 box.

[jakg104]

Resurrecting an old thread. I read that the owner of Siene sadly passed away not too long ago.
Does anyone have a Siene kit for sale? I could use one in my '86 911.
Thanks!
Jake

[axvel]

cool

[Qcurtis88]

Could also keep it stock and just add a shifter spring so it snaps back to 3/4 from either side

https://stellasautogarage.com/collections/porsche-products/products/915-shifter-spring

[KTL]

The one plus to the Seine setup that other modifications (and complete shifters) don’t address is the plate with the tabs on it. That plate is a mirror image of the original Porsche plate that captures the spring centering effect of 5th and reverse

I give Sherwood (RIP, such a good guy), aka 911pcars a lot of credit because his invention is clever, simple and ahead of its time.

[pmax]

Time flies.

Wonder why no one has picked this up and continued offering the mod to the 911 community.

[Walt Fricke]

Well, Sherwood developed his kit because Robotek (which used basically the same design, less the tabs, for more money) refused a request for a Rennlist (or predecessor) group purchase rate. His kit was (and still is?) unique in the tab parts his kit came with - I don't think any of the various other systems prevent the spring from loading the system unnecessarily when in 1st or 2d gear. I could be wrong about that, but the ones I have looked into don't deal with that issue, which leads to a whining noise when in those two gears, and wear - though possibly not significant - back in the gear box.

This harp spring system idea looks to me to be even better - genius, really. Fewer parts, no drilling of holes, the rubber boot fits, and - if you add a short shifter - no need to clearance the opening in the aluminum shift tower so the longer cross pin can move as needed.

If a guy can weld, it is easy to fabricate and add two tabs on the left side of the stock top plate, and to form and weld to the shift lever (carefully, as the lever's metal is kind of thin) a corresponding "hook" or whatnot tab mimicking the stock system on the right side of the mechanism. I did that with my Robotek (purchased before the Seine was available).

I suspect there is no money to be made selling just that part of the system. It also was just a bit awkward to attach, as the stock studs used to attach it were only marginally long enough.

The Robotek (which went out of business once the Seine appeared?) and Seine on my 915 transmissioned 911s ended issues with my or my wife's making money shifts. And eventually stopped my efforts to come up with a servo operated speed sensor input electronic progressive lockout system to make selecting too low a gear impossible. The marginal benefit no longer seemed worth the effort. The main wonder to me is why it took Porsche so long to come up with a shifter centering system which they instituted when - with the 994s? 996s?

[Walt Fricke]

Here is someone's attempt at a progressive lockout?g[/img]


Dennis Page, a retired high school friend who was helping me with the device in the following picture, didn't quite get there - the devil was in the little details and close tolerances in the mechanical parts. I'm sure he could have dealt easily with user adjustable programming an Arduino to provide the speed input I planned to pick up with a sensor reading CV bolt heads. If we kept at it I believe we could have made it work. But alas, I lost interest and concluded there was no market given the success of spring loading (along with removing the slop from the shift coupler bushings) in fixing the stock shifter's sloppiness. You would need (or at least want) the extra spring loading in any event (you can just see part of the Seine in one photo).