to tail or not to tail

[KNS]

No tail. One of the reasons Porsche brought on the retractable tail of the 964 was to preserve the lines of the coupe, even they weren't that crazy about it on the non turbo cars (Excellence- Aug, 2010, page 71).

[DanielDudley]

Do you like it ?

Do you need it ?

Do you want it ? What is a 911 to YOU ?

[Greek55]

I have both and will put the 1976 1 piece turbo tail on the car when I do a drivers ed or am doing high speed highway speeds because it makes the car more stable over about 70 mph. It takes about 15 minutes to switch them out now that I have marks on both to show where to line them up.
Personally I like the look without better, but I like both looks. The turbo tail does add some stablity at high speeds.

[joeblow]

Historically, Porsche was one of, if not the first to use Aero on their production cars. It is a part of Porsche's history. So saying it ruins the lines, or was never intended, are simply not really correct. It was part of the lines and was absolutely intended!

There are those that say that aero killed motorsports, or aero was the end of the privateers in racing and all sorts of comments but it was and is a huge part of what made racing and sports cars exciting in the 70's and still today.

I am still not sure if my 71' needs the tail or not. Just like in 71', I am on the verge of making the choice to add aero or not . Of course we know what decision was made in Stuttgart.

[ruby911]

Mine had a huge tail when I bought it and removing it was one of the first tasks....no tail is my vote.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by remigio

86 targa w/ low-on-the-cowl carrera logo

being older and having yet to go >100mph, a spoiler would be just a matter of aesthetics for me and the wife. i thought a "clean rear" would be better for us. it was one of the selling points of the car last july. now that i'd seen both forms of the body, i am not so sure.

may be i would "tail"and maybe i'll stay put. i would like opinions pro and con vis-a-vis a whale tail in the rear.

thanx/remigio
72mbz 280se 4.5 (gave to son)
80 fiat pininfarina 2000 (stolen)

"...would be just a matter of aesthetics.."

No, there might be a practical reason, two actually.

The first being the possibility that with even a slight vacuum behind the car absent the tail the heated air having already passed through the engine might shortcut and again enter the engine compartment. Yes, that's a bit of a stretch but who's to say otherwise.

The second arises if you live in an area, Memphis, etc, wherein the A/C doesn't quite hack it. The tail provides a space for mounting 12 volt fans to force EXTRA downward airflow throught the condensor even with the engine idling on.

Oh, for some of us "aesthetics" can be quite meaningful.

[Jerome74911S]

Responses to the aesthetics are totally subjective, so a decision on that basis is up to you and no one else - forget about who votes for what. That said, Porsche invented the tail to address a problem; aerodynamic lift. The car does resemble a wing shape in a loose sort of way, which lifts the car. If you like the look of their solution to this problem, fine. The car has had many, many changes made to it in its evolution. Sometimes these changes made things functionally better, sometimes not. To me the car's graceful shape is compromised by the tail and it does not improve on the elegance of the original 1964 design, at all. That said, go with your gut.

[brett25]

im not a fan of the tail either, especially on Targas.

However, I recently installed a chin spoiler- I highly recommend getting that instead! Really improved handling

[Richard Burns]

If you go ahead and fit a tail make sure that you fit the chin spoiler as well. I had a whale tail on my first P car without the chin spoiler and it was dangerous above 75mph steering was too light.

Richard.

[TT Oversteer]

The tail is a very functional part of the 911. I notice the difference in stability even well below 100 mph.

If the look bothers you then don't install it. Or, if you like the look, then install it knowing that it was designed by Porsche as a functional item not for style points.

[wwest]

Bu t it most certainly HAS style points.

[911st]

Every one should do what appeals to there eye.

To my eye Targes do not look right with a tail.

Further a coupe with SC flairs looks good with or without but a narrow 911 coupe with a tail looks kind of silly.

On the other hand, a wide body without a tail also looks silly.


As to better high speed handling.

There is already 50% more weight on the rear than the front so there is not really a need for a rear spoiler from a high speed safety need.

It adds about 40 lbs to the rear where you really do not need it or want it for low speed cornering. I played with some numbers once and I think you have to be going something like 100mph before the added down force from a stock spoiler adds enough benefit to overcome the added weight the rear tires must carry from a rear traction point of view. As to acceleration you probably never overcome the power to weight penalty.

The front however is a different story and can easily get light at speed. It only has about 650 lbs per front wheel on a stock SC or Carrera. A front spoiler, some rake with a front down attitude, good alignment, proper shocks, and stiffer springs (not so much sway bars) all around would probably help here.

Just my opinion.

[chris 964]

Originally Posted by KNS

No tail. One of the reasons Porsche brought on the retractable tail of the 964 was to preserve the lines of the coupe, even they weren't that crazy about it on the non turbo cars (Excellence- Aug, 2010, page 71).

+1 on the 964 retractable tail. I just put one on my 88 - post pics later..

[Greek55]

Originally Posted by 911st

Every one should do what appeals to there eye.
As to better high speed handling.

There is already 50% more weight on the rear than the front so there is not really a need for a rear spoiler from a high speed safety need.

It adds about 40 lbs to the rear where you really do not need it or want it for low speed cornering. I played with some numbers once and I think you have to be going something like 100mph before the added down force from a stock spoiler adds enough benefit to overcome the added weight the rear tires must carry from a rear traction point of view. As to acceleration you probably never overcome the power to weight penalty.

Just my opinion.

Dont tell my car this. There is a very noticable difference at 70MPH and beyond, the faster, the more of a difference. My car without a tail gets pretty squirrelly around 100MPH.

[myamoto1]

I started w/ a turbo tail (but it was damaged):



Replaced it with a standard Carrera decklid:



The one thing I miss about the turbo tail (other than stability) is the badge delete. Instead of spending the time/money to remove the badge from my "plain" tail, it'll go towards a duck. I think ducks are a good compromise between tail and no tail. I really like the looks of the Singer tail and the 2010 911 SC and may try to find/build something along those lines.

[DARISC]

As beautiful as the 911 profile is, it's an airfoil and the faster it goes the more it wants to take off and fly. Even with its turbo tail (the tea tray) I feel mine starting to go light at 80-85 mph. At top speed it's a white knuckle ride (I'm told).

Back in the day it was "the manly thing" to have a pic of your speedo reading 150-155, top speed of an SC. I had mine up to 125, once, and chose not to screw up my courage to "press on regardless".

Ducks/tea trays/whale tails don't provide any downforce; they're just spoilers. They spoil the airflow by introducing turbulence to the low pressure area over the rear roof line, thus reducing lift.

I'd like the looks of mine better without the tail, but it would nag at me that the car's performance at speed is compromised without it.

[Bob Kontak]

No tail given your driving habits.

[mholbrook38]

I have my 79 SC in for paint right now. Painting the original and a Carerra tail. I like it both ways. I'm going to run with the Carerra tail as soon as I get it all back together but for a while, I'll be with the stock deck lid. I liked it with the tail before but it was looking pretty ratty. With the new paint and all the odds and ends all cleaned up, who knows which direction I will ultimately go. In the end, it is your car. Enjoy it and don't worry about what anyone thinks.

[dw1]

My 2¢:

The greenhouse lines of a targa do not go well with a Carrera or turbo tail. If you must have a tail on a targa, a ducktail is the way to go, as it matches (well, sort of) the targa bar line.

Frankly, every time I look at my car ('87 coupe) by itself, I think the tail looks great. But when I see the same car in a parking lot (especially with tailless 911's), the tail looks like a dated affectation.

-dw
'87 3.2 G50 black/black sunroof coupe w. f/r spoilers, Fabspeed premuffler, Dansk 1-in-2-out, SW 93 oct. chip, bumperettes deleted, euro ride height, bump steer kit, CDR220, etc.

[Brando]

I'm up for trading my non-tail carrera decklid with someone who has tail on theirs and wants to get rid of it