Talk me out of buying cayman. 993 vs. 996 vs. 997 vs. Cayman S

[911SauCy]

Add me to the "not helping" list.

Had the opportunity to drive a '13 Cayman this past weekend...

Car was AMAZING. GET ONE !

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

This is a myth - check facts, not internet rhetoric. The 996 and first gen 997 engines have a weak spot that is easily retrofitted. With that done, they are very reliable and a fantastic value. $20k gets a clean early and $25K gets a nice late 996. Love the Cayman, though.

the fact you are saying this is a myth .. is a myth .. IMS failures which Porsche now admits to after saying for years it was just rhetoric, cylinder ovaling due to inadequate cooling requiring complete engine replacement .. of all the Porsche owners i know only M96 owners have had engines replaced in great numbers , M96 owners say this is all a myth in defence of their hammered resale value. .. stay away from this car unless you get it real cheap ..
the 996TT is a completely different animal though and has a different design and much more robust .. this is where your value and performance lie. the bargain of a lifetime ..

[wayner]

Interesting that nobody bit on the 993 option.

I won't make any friends with the comment that follows this paragraph but after driving newer water cooled 911s and early air cooled long hoods, I decided on an early car for my purposes, but if it was a hot climate daily driver I would agree with the Cayman.

To me the 993 is just a confused car. People love it, but I find it is a vintage car in disguise, and for me it doesn't play either role particularly well. It is simply the most refined and luxurious vintage car that I have ever driven, but that confuses me. Maybe I just confuse easily.

(Note to self: prepare to go into hiding from 993 fanatics)

[KNS]

wayner,

Interesting comment regarding the 993, having picked one up a few months ago I would agree to a point. If you really want an air cooled 911 with a bit more creature comforts (I'm getting older, I want 'em), it's fantastic.

[David]

From a cost stand point the 997 and 993 are going to be the biggest cost and surprisingly a 2009 Cayman or later isn't far behind and may be more. These have the newer DFI engine and there were not that many sold. There do seem to be a lot of auto tranny 2006-2008 Cayman's so one could be had for a decent price especially if you don't have to have an S model. The 996's are a relative bargain especially if you like the styling. The 2004+ 996's have the latest tweaks.

I've driven 996's, 993's, and 1st gen Cayman's and I've owned a 997S and now have a new Cayman S and my choice is the Cayman. It just flat out handles the others. I really didn't think the 997 handled that much better than the 996 especially given the additional cost.

The 993 is more of a collector's car so I wouldn't make one a DD.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by wayner

Interesting that nobody bit on the 993 option.

I won't make any friends with the comment that follows this paragraph but after driving newer water cooled 911s and early air cooled long hoods, I decided on an early car for my purposes, but if it was a hot climate daily driver I would agree with the Cayman.

To me the 993 is just a confused car. People love it, but I find it is a vintage car in disguise, and for me it doesn't play either role particularly well. It is simply the most refined and luxurious vintage car that I have ever driven, but that confuses me. Maybe I just confuse easily.

(Note to self: prepare to go into hiding from 993 fanatics)

Makes sense to me. I actually prefer the 964, as it was a very thorough update to the running gear of the original 911, but Ferry decreed they couldn't change the styling from the bumper line up, so it retains the classic 911 look. The 993 got the multilink rear suspension, which does appeal to me, but I don't care for the smoothed-over looks, especially in the rear, where the "negative space" between the flare and the bumper was filled in to make room for exhaust stuff, leaving it with a big butt like the newer cars. The pseudo-concave (two convex surfaces of the flare and the quarter panel coming together) rear end always looks so much sexier and muscular to me.

[Staylo]

The Cayman is awesome, and especially with the DFI engines you can't go wrong.
But........
Given your stated budget, you may really regret it later if you don't at least test drive a 996TT. Trust me on this one.

[wayner]

The looks of a 993 actually really appeal to me.

Originally Posted by theiceman

the fact you are saying this is a myth .. is a myth .. IMS failures which Porsche now admits to after saying for years it was just rhetoric, cylinder ovaling due to inadequate cooling requiring complete engine replacement .. of all the Porsche owners i know only M96 owners have had engines replaced in great numbers , M96 owners say this is all a myth in defence of their hammered resale value. .. stay away from this car unless you get it real cheap ..

It's good that people buy into this. It allowed me to get a fantastic 99 for SC money. Now repeat after me - I read it on the internet, so it must be true.

[sbrown.nw]

Wish they would make a Cayman targa.

Scott

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

It's good that people buy into this. It allowed me to get a fantastic 99 for SC money. Now repeat after me - I read it on the internet, so it must be true.

This guy below must live in a make believe world. Maybe it wouldn't have happened if the internet didn't exist

1999 Porsche 911 Carrera Convertible - City of Toronto Cars For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

From the advert (looks like the price is cheap though).

"Recently bought this car from states but the engine seized and now I am not able to get the repairs done since I cannot afford to spend that kinda money ...
"

[Cajundaddy]

If you are a dentist driving to and from the office, get a 993. She is a looker and has some of the sweetest lines of any Porsche built. Driving dynamics are pretty weak without a LOT of suspension tweaks though. It will also hold it's value so if you are a collector the 993 is a good choice.

If you want driving dynamics, get the Cayman. They are just stunning to drive and also come with modern creature comforts.

[procan]

I guess the big dilemma is a DFI Cayman S with sport chrono and PDK can be roughly the same price as a 2006 997. It's hard for me to pass up the 911 for a "poor mans Porsche", even though, I know in my heart, I love driving the Cayman S. I think I just need a couple more test drives to convince myself. It's not like I don't already own 2 (ish) 911s. I just need to convince myself that I don't care what new 911 owners would think of me and my Cayman.

Pro - Get the car that works for you. Don't worry about what others think. When I found my 996, I was looking at Boxsters and would have looked at a Cayman had it been in my target price range. If wifey is going to drive it, get her out and see what she thinks. Look me up when you get to Dallas and I'll show you my unblown up 996 and the 73S I'm working on.

[wayner]

If a 911 is really your target, then either buy the risky motored one and set aside a contingency fund just in case (and hope you never need it)

or, buy a GT3 or turbo instead

Gee Wayner - I wonder if that owner did the $700 Raby IMS retrofit or the $200ish Pelican IMS retrofit? Guess not.

Have you ever heard how mid year cars pull head studs, how SC's break head studs, how 3.2 cars wear valve guides, how 964's leak at cylinder joints, how 993 wears valve guides and clogs SAI system? Maybe you just searched for 996 to try and prove your point. Every generation has an Achilles heal - the 996 is no different. The 996 problem affects 5 - 10% of the cars and with a fairly simple fix, becomes a non issue. The 996 preventative fix is certainly more palatable than a top end cost. I got no skin in this game as I got a great deal on my car due to this

Just because you read it on the internet doesn't mean it's true.

Originally Posted by wayner

This guy below must live in a make believe world. Maybe it wouldn't have happened if the internet didn't exist

1999 Porsche 911 Carrera Convertible - City of Toronto Cars For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

From the advert (looks like the price is cheap though).

"Recently bought this car from states but the engine seized and now I am not able to get the repairs done since I cannot afford to spend that kinda money ...
"

[wayner]

Gee wiz Mark, I expected to get attacked for my comments on 993s, not for offering a pragmatic view with options for dealing with this risk, perceived or otherwise.

Not being aware of a risk is much different than knowingly accepting it.

[procan]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

Pro - Get the car that works for you. Don't worry about what others think. When I found my 996, I was looking at Boxsters and would have looked at a Cayman had it been in my target price range. If wifey is going to drive it, get her out and see what she thinks. Look me up when you get to Dallas and I'll show you my unblown up 996 and the 73S I'm working on.

I know I shouldn't care what others think. The Cayman S was a revelation when I drove it, and I already have my dream 911 (the '69).

Wayne - that did sound harsh and I apologize. But I really don't think you offered a pragmatic view - only an example of one car with a bad motor. Before I bought the 996, I researched well and spoke at length with the Hans at RAC here in Dallas. As a service writer for a Porsche dealer and shop owner for many years, Hans has had thousands of 996's through his shops. He told me that he used to see a few with the problem motors, but not that many any more and the hysteria was way overblown to begin with. This is real world experience and not internet rhetoric. What people not tuned into the 996 don't understand and what I've tried to convey is that there is a simple and relatively inexpensive retrofit available that takes much of the worry out of 996 ownership. At sub $20K for a low mile car and with the performance they offer, a 996 is a bargain. I'm not trying to convince anyone as I don't need to. Just correcting misinformation. Now I'm done and will let Procan decide what color Cayman S he wants. I want a ride...

Originally Posted by wayner

Gee wiz Mark, I expected to get attacked for my comments on 993s, not for offering a pragmatic view with options for dealing with this risk, perceived or otherwise.

Not being aware of a risk is much different than knowingly accepting it.

[jpnovak]

Love the Cayman. Spent some time in a Cayman R and from behind the wheel it is the clear winner from a handling perspective.

For that budget I would be looking at a 996TT. Available for $40K with low mileage and none of the standard M96 motor issues. Yeah, I said it. I want one as a DD.

I too would not be scared off by an early 996. IMS bearing upgrade, low temp thermostat and drive it. for under $20K you could replace the engine every few years and be ahead.

My only problem with the Cayman is the rear roof line drop. I am 6"3" and do not quite fit comfortably with enough head clearance. Certainly could not get a helmet on under there.