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-   -   Powder Coating (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=781663)

Byrne Coatings 09-26-2014 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 8279861)
I see you powdercoated springs and wheels...

How does it hold up on a spring? I would think the coating would crack from repetitive flexing?

Also, on wheels, does heating them cause any issues? I thought it could weaken the wheel?

Great question.

Most aftermarket springs are actually powder coated believe it or not. If the substrate being powder coated is prepped properly, powder will never crack or chip. Powder is actually incredibly flexible and will do just fine on springs for many years.

To answer your second question, rims, like springs are mostly powder coated as well. A temperature of 400* is not hot enough to affect the structural integrity of any ferrous and or non ferrous substrate.

Byrne Coatings 09-26-2014 10:09 AM

I just want to say thank you to the members on this forum. I have posted my work on other forums and have been utterly appalled at some of the comments and negativity.

Here at Pelican you guys ask well thought-out competent questions. Bravo!!
This is truly a great forum for tons of great information without the BS. I truly thank all of you.

Byrne Coatings 09-26-2014 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrRed (Post 8279630)
Hey there. You're just down the road from me (2 towns away in fact). I'd love to come by and see your shop some-time. Working on a potential suspension refresh this winter and that'll include a bunch of coated parts I need done.

Cool man, swing down. Yeah lets bring that suspension back to life.

Ferrino 09-26-2014 10:16 AM

Thanks. It says on the JB-Weld website that it will tolerate a constant temp of 500F. What temp is the oven for p-coating?

I was actually thinking about adhesion of the powder to the JB-Weld surface as opposed to tolerating the baking oven. I know JB-Weld is full of metal filings, so I guess that helps...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrne Coatings (Post 8279856)
As far as JB Weld goes, I dont believe it will hold up to the curing temps of the powder process. Ceramic coating on the other hand shouldn't be a problem if it is of the air cure type.


Byrne Coatings 09-26-2014 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrino (Post 8279891)
Thanks. It says on the JB-Weld website that it will tolerate a constant temp of 500F. What temp is the oven for p-coating?

I was actually thinking about adhesion of the powder to the JB-Weld surface as opposed to tolerating the baking oven. I know JB-Weld is full of metal filings, so I guess that helps...

Hey Ferrino,

I actually just did some research and it appears JB-Weld does have a high heat product.
Dont quote me on this as I have not tried it or experimented but I would assume that this product would be similar to Lab Metal in the fact that adherence would not pose a problem.

I'm going to buy some of this JB Weld High Heat stuff and give it a whirl.

Ferrino 09-26-2014 10:48 AM

What temp do you typically cure at?

Robey5 09-26-2014 10:55 AM

PC on wheels
 
Regarding powder coating on aluminum wheels:

I used to work for a large company who made about 40% of the global passenger car aluminum wheel volume ... supplier of all OEMs.

Powder coat was used on OEM applications more often than not. From what I understand PC is a much more stable and controllable process than a wet-paint process, but I am sure that I will be proved differently on this board.

Also, wheels were PC'ed before they were machined in the (giant) lathe. Aluminum chips flew everywhere, cutting fluid flew everywhere, etc etc etc.

PC is a rather durable coating method by my eye test.

Byrne Coatings 09-26-2014 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robey5 (Post 8279952)
Regarding powder coating on aluminum wheels:

I used to work for a large company who made about 40% of the global passenger car aluminum wheel volume ... supplier of all OEMs.

Powder coat was used on OEM applications more often than not. From what I understand PC is a much more stable and controllable process than a wet-paint process, but I am sure that I will be proved differently on this board.

Also, wheels were PC'ed before they were machined in the (giant) lathe. Aluminum chips flew everywhere, cutting fluid flew everywhere, etc etc etc.

PC is a rather durable coating method by my eye test.

Thanks Robey5,

I would agree with you 100%. I will also mention the fact that powder coating is much more environmentally appealing as the process does not require solvents or the emission of VOC's from the curing process.

Byrne Coatings 09-26-2014 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrino (Post 8279934)
What temp do you typically cure at?

Almost all powder cures @ 400*F.

fbeatty 09-27-2014 02:57 AM

Looks good. When I had my engine out I had the timing chain covers, upper and lower valve covers, AC brackets and surround tins all powder coated. It all came out looking real good and has held up very well.

While the OP did not do mine (as this was done a couple of years ago), powder coating is a good way to go. I really like how the suspension components came out.

seg911 09-27-2014 04:30 AM

Fuchs
 
Hi, please post photos of PC Fuchs. Thanks. SEG911

billjam 09-27-2014 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrne Coatings (Post 8279928)
Hey Ferrino,

I actually just did some research and it appears JB-Weld does have a high heat product.
Dont quote me on this as I have not tried it or experimented but I would assume that this product would be similar to Lab Metal in the fact that adherence would not pose a problem.

I'm going to buy some of this JB Weld High Heat stuff and give it a whirl.

We use JB Weld occasionally to fill small holes (usually in aluminium) and it works OK under powdercoat. The only times we have had a problem with it are when we have been too greedy or hasty. Apply it in thin layers (1mm max) and allow each layer to fully harden before applying the next.
I would imagine that the same approach would be prudent for any of these metallic fillers.

911pcars 09-27-2014 08:18 AM

There are numerous coatings, some general-purpose, others for specific applications and purposes. No one coating type can be universally applied with success. For example, while traditional powder coating can be an ideal coating for covers, brackets, suspension parts, outdoor objects, etc., I wouldn't suggest using it for other areas (engine case and major/internal components, body panels, dimensional parts, some wheels, parts in contact with solvents/high temperature, etc.).

But who knows? environmentally friendly PC technology might mature to be the solution to many more coating applications. YMMV. Your car, your parts.

MHO,
Sherwood

Byrne Coatings 09-29-2014 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911pcars (Post 8280874)
There are numerous coatings, some general-purpose, others for specific applications and purposes. No one coating type can be universally applied with success. For example, while traditional powder coating can be an ideal coating for covers, brackets, suspension parts, outdoor objects, etc., I wouldn't suggest using it for other areas (engine case and major/internal components, body panels, dimensional parts, some wheels, parts in contact with solvents/high temperature, etc.).

But who knows? environmentally friendly PC technology might mature to be the solution to many more coating applications. YMMV. Your car, your parts.

MHO,
Sherwood

Sherwood,

I'm not sure why you wouldn't recommend it for "(engine case and major/internal components, body panels, dimensional parts, some wheels, parts in contact with solvents/high temperature, etc.). "

The only thing I agree with here are body panels as powder will almost certainly have orange peel on large flat panels.

When I first started powder coating I tried just about every solvent on the market and could not find one that efficiently and effectively removed powder. In my experience powder holds up far better than paint near solvents used in the automotive industry.

Byrne Coatings 09-29-2014 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billjam (Post 8280707)
We use JB Weld occasionally to fill small holes (usually in aluminium) and it works OK under powdercoat. The only times we have had a problem with it are when we have been too greedy or hasty. Apply it in thin layers (1mm max) and allow each layer to fully harden before applying the next.
I would imagine that the same approach would be prudent for any of these metallic fillers.

Yes the Lab Metal product I use is suggested to be applied in thin layers as you mentioned.

The JB Weld you use, is it the high heat stuff?

Ferrino 09-29-2014 10:01 AM

I think I mentioned above that regular JB-Weld will tolerate a constant temp of 500F. It should therefore be fine at 400F.

Byrne Coatings 09-29-2014 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seg911 (Post 8280689)
Hi, please post photos of PC Fuchs. Thanks. SEG911

I unfortunately have not had the pleasure of restoring/Powder Coating a set of Fuchs yet. :(

Byrne Coatings 09-29-2014 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrino (Post 8283314)
I think I mentioned above that regular JB-Weld will tolerate a constant temp of 500F. It should therefore be fine at 400F.

Ok great. Thanks.

911pcars 09-29-2014 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrne Coatings (Post 8283287)
Sherwood,

I'm not sure why you wouldn't recommend it for "(engine case and major/internal components, body panels, dimensional parts, some wheels, parts in contact with solvents/high temperature, etc.). "

The only thing I agree with here are body panels as powder will almost certainly have orange peel on large flat panels.

When I first started powder coating I tried just about every solvent on the market and could not find one that efficiently and effectively removed powder. In my experience powder holds up far better than paint near solvents used in the automotive industry.

My comments were fairly general, but I include those parts that might be affected by coating thickness as it affects heat transfer. E.g. cylinder heads, cam/chain box housings or internal engine parts (pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, intermediate shaft, rocker arms, camshaft, etc. and/or any other engine part that is normally lubricated, subject to high temps., friction or must maintain dimensional stability for normal operation. That covers most main engine parts. I may have missed some.

As for solvent exposure, maybe I'm not up to date on the latest powder technoloigy. Is powder coating affected by contact with typical automotive liquids such as lube oil, brake fluid, lacquer thinner and acetone?

Sherwood

Byrne Coatings 09-29-2014 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911pcars (Post 8283390)
My comments were fairly general, but I include those parts that might be affected by coating thickness as it affects heat transfer. E.g. cylinder heads, cam/chain box housings or internal engine parts (pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, intermediate shaft, rocker arms, camshaft, etc. and/or any other engine part that is normally lubricated, subject to high temps., friction or must maintain dimensional stability for normal operation. That covers most main engine parts. I may have missed some.

As for solvent exposure, maybe I'm not up to date on the latest powder technoloigy. Is powder coating affected by contact with typical automotive liquids such as lube oil, brake fluid, lacquer thinner and acetone?

Sherwood

Yes Yes...powder can not be applied to internal engine components. A better suited product would be a ceramic coating.

Ceramic can be used for many different engine components such as Piston skirts, piston tops, exhausts intakes...etc.

Once powder is fully cured none of the above mentioned liquids will affect the powder with the exception of the Lacquer Thinner as it will soften the powder.


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