Porsche 911: Bulletproof simple and reliable OR yuppie maintenance nightmare?

[PushingMyLuck]

If the Porsche 911 is so reliable and simple, why does Porsche also have a rep of being an expensive maintenance nightmare?

All cars are lumped into the same boat. BMW, Porsche, Audi. Most people only buy Hondas, and any Euro car is a nightmare to repair. Most people I know will not even go near a BMW. Porsche is on another level altogether.

So, there seem to be 2 drastically differing views. Based on forum talk, if 911's are so reliable, bulletproof, and will "run forever". Yet in the real world, they have the reputation for always being in the shop and costing an arm and a leg to fix...

And this reputation was when these cars were NEW. Now, some are 30 years old, so they must be even worse to maintain than they were in the 80s. Yet on the forum, they are dead simple and reliable bulletproof.

Where does the truth lie?

[wildthing]

If you buy one that needs work, for sure it's more expensive in the long run. I bought a well-maintained example (88) and only spend for basic maintenance and upgrades, and wear and tear items that would need replacing after 25 years (fuel lines).

That being said, it is a sports car, not a family sedan, so you don't buy 70 dollar tires and expect the buy 3 get 4 promos at Costco for example. And my independent mechanic's hourly rate is still higher than my Toyota dealership's. But I only go once a year. Twice if I need some off cycle job done. And if you can DIY you save a ton more.

[Trackrash]

I drove my '71 911 daily for over 25 years with only routine maintenance. I did all my own work.

I forgot to mention that I spent 5 years completely restoring the car first.

[Les Paul]

In the 29 years I've maintained the 930 I've been towed twice. Rear wheel bearing 25 years ago, cdi 15 years ago due to a bad stereo upgrade. I drive it like I stole it.

[manbridge 74]

It's like any car. You get out of it what you put in it.

911s have a great benefit in that most components are rebuildable vs the disposable parts you see on today's vehicles.

[Nick Triesch]

I have owned British cars, an Alpha and Porsche cars. The Porsche cars just work. The others just do not. If you take care of a 356 or a 911 it will give years of trouble free fun. Sure parts cost a lot. But learn to do stuff like valves and a tune up and it will great to own. 146,000 miles on mine and it just goes.

[timmy2]

If you are willing to get your hands dirty and you have decent mechanical skills they are very straightforward to repair and maintain for most.

Paying someone to do it is another story...

[fanaudical]

I think the "truth" lies in the basic question of "how much electronics is in the car you're going to purchase"? My older Audi (minimal electronics) and the old 911 (NO modern electronics) are both essentially bulletproof. The newer Audi (10x the electronics) is significantly more difficult to repair (all the mechanical stuff is buried deep).

[74threeliter]

I have and have had Honda's and thought like you "oh it will run with very little maintenance... Wrong!". The engine blew a head gasket @120k miles and was never the same even after being rebuilt professionally so I sold the crx.

Had my 74' with the 'bulletproof' 3.0 engine - did all the maintenance myself and still running strong with 195k miles! Took it to the shop 'once' to have them tell me, "be sure to clean all electrical connections and the frequency valve will stop acting up".

Now the 3.0 got pulled out and a 3.6 went in so I can put the 3.0 in the 71'.
3.6 with nearly 20k miles later running better every time I update it (last item was the Steve Wong chip).

Porsche parts are more expensive than Honda parts but like mentioned earlier porsche parts are better candidates at being rebuilt since they are built with better quality.

The design of porsche parts are simple, practical and engineered to last period.

Like the ad says 70% of porsches still on the road. With that said I wonder what the percentages are of other makes not just Hondas. I still ride my shadow spirit 50k miles and wife has an accord. But when she asks me on Saturday mornings can we take a drive... she's not talking about the accord.

So my story is, if you like working on cars this is a great marque and will NOT be at the shop. Most young gen's are wallet mechanics and you need to ask yourself what category do you fall in?

a) wallet mechanic
b) self-doer

ps - I work on my own house also regardless of the task I want to be involved. You get what you put in as "manbridge 74" mentions. I work in a cubicle 50 hrs/wk.

[Lapkritis]

The cost to rebuild a 911 engine is absolutely ridiculous relative to others. Most of the professionals will hang the badge front and center to justify the price... don't be intimidated to DIY. An engine is an engine. A Subaru has an overhead cam boxer engine; snowmobiles have Nikasil. There's nothing special that doesn't exist elsewhere but people will tell you otherwise while cupping your ass/wallet.

[clutch-monkey]

kind of obvious answer to this.. not even sure why it needs to be asked

a badly maintained porsche will be a maintenance nightmare, yes. people who buy them and expect to run them like a camry will have lots to moan about.

mine hasn't cost me more than basic oil changes and maintenance over 8 years of track driving and roadtrips- exception being a gearbox refresh.
my bmw 2002 has cost even less.

[dfhtrhjn]

I've only owned four Porsches so my sample size is small, but in my experience they've always been my most reliable cars. I also do all the work on the cars in my household and my 911s are much easier to work on than the audi, land rover, or any other cars we've owned.

The reliability we experience might be related to how easy they are to fix.

[McLaren-TAG]

The question is what will it cost you to drive a modern day car 25 or 30 years from now. The statistic is that 70% of all Porsches ever built are still on the road.

[r-mm]

I agree with the electronics comment and will add that a lot of frustration comes from pouring money into a car that is simultaneously bleeding it out of depreciation as well or will never have an upside. Hence the fact that my parents sell their bought-new Audi wagons at precisely 100k miles when things are starting to go south. I sometimes try to convince them to hold on - once they gave me the car and said "you hold on" and I spent a grand in a few months.

On the flip side, I spent $4k on a DIY motor rebuild not long after I bought my Carrera G50, but I swear the car appreciated more than that since I've bought it and the future looks bright. Plus these are cars worth keeping on the road. Not so sure how many people would argue that for a late model euro luxury vehicle.

That said, I agree that engine rebuilds are absurd. I economized in every possible way, comparison shopped like it was my job, did everything myself and spent more rebuilding the TOP END of the motor not even touching piston rings than I did on a hot-rod, to the crank, nos hi comp pistons and liners, MFI refurb'd, Alfa Romeo 2L build. It's expensive horsepower.

[sballard]

I have more experience with BMWs than Porsches. I have owned 4 BMWs: 1972 2002tii (wonderful car); 1991 318is (damn good); 1999 328is (great car); 2008 328i coupe (grossly complex for no apparent reason).

I've worked on all of them. The first three were all fantastic cars, but the complexity increased with each newer model. The 2008 car is a huge disappointment. There is no way I could ever do any reasonable work on this car. Frankly, BMW has seriously dropped the ball with their newer models. The days of owner repairs is just about over with their newer models. Dealer costs are outrageous. What should be the simple tasks, like changing the battery and water pump, are unbelievably difficult and expensive. With the move in this direction, BMW is throwing away there very large and loyal fan base.

For Porsches, I just have my '72 911T - which is in the process of restoration. I actually enjoy working on this car. Wrenches, screwdrivers, and ohm meters!

[lateapex911]

Like anything, the truth is in the middle.
Old Porsches once set up and properly maintained are quite reliable, considering they were "exotic cars' (or close to) at the time of their sale.

If i were in the market for a new car like an Audi, I'd lease. BMW, I'm on the fence on. VW has gotten better.
But Hondas and Toyotas ARE more reliable. (Still not perfect. New Odysseys are having BIG issues with oil consumption (rings) that has resulted from their 3 cylider shut down feature.)

[MrBonus]

They're old luxury brand cars with expensive parts. They require more frequent maintenance that many second-hand owners have neglected due to cost or ignorance during their two to three decades on our roads. Their gaskets, seals, wires, and hoses are made from the same rubbers and plastics as all other makes that will degrade over time and many of these original pieces are reaching the end of their useful life cycle. These aren't cars intended for casual drivers or non-enthusiasts and they ultimately are a labor of love for their owners and curators.

[einsteiger]

NOT a Porsche owner, but having a 1987 Benz 560SL more than qualifies me to chime in. I think forums give a skewed look at the truth. Most people, whether it be cars, customer service, etc., tend to only report bad news. Few people create a posting just to tout that their vehicle has performed in a reliable way. I think with both older Benz, Porsche and BMW the old adage applies: you get what you pay for.

[NYNick]

PML, buy a car yet?

PM me if you're interested in one of my beauties.

Nick

[DougZ]

I have owned American, British, German and Japanese cars. Guess what? They all broke down once in a while. I prefer BMW as my daily drivers because of the combination of sporty performance, comfort, easy to meintain and the way it makes me feel. I chose an older 911 because of the classic looks, engine layout, tradition, history and it makes me feel good. I could never have the satisfaction driving a trouble free Camry like driving a sports car. So what if it's less reliable. If you are worried about it you should not own one. You could give me a free reliable Camry and I could care less about it. It's like eating a meal with no taste.